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beneficii
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26 Feb 2020, 7:09 pm

I can't access the article itself behind the paywall, but this tweet by a Washington Post columnist linking to live updates says a case was detected today in Northern California that is "of unknown origin". This suggests the patient had no recent foreign travel and no contact with a person known to have traveled to an infected area.

https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/ ... 9154723841

I think it's finally here. And frankly, I'm thinking it's just been a matter of time since the big outbreak in Lombardy and environs that started last week.


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beneficii
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26 Feb 2020, 7:11 pm

jimmy m wrote:
The various nations have set up firewalls. Some are better than others. As firewalls fail, the unaffected nations will modify their firewalls to compensate. But for the individual nations that are affected, panic can set in. It is best to prepare a little for such a possibility should the firewall fail. It is a proactive approach.


Interestingly, Italy probably had one of the strongest firewalls in Europe, and it still got in:

Quote:
Italy has the third highest infection count and the joint third highest death count for a country. Many municipalities in Northern Italy have been placed under quarantine. As of late February, Italy was hit harder than anywhere else in the EU by the COVID-19 outbreak. However, Italy was one of only two countries in Europe to suspend all direct flight to and from China and the earliest to do so, treating the outbreak with one of the toughest measures in the EU, adding onto the confusion amongst Italian politicians and experts.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coro ... k_in_Italy


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kraftiekortie
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26 Feb 2020, 7:27 pm

There still has not been a confirmed case in New York City.

And we have five Chinatowns, and people who have (until recently) traveled to and from China on a regular basis.

I feel like people with suppressed and compromised immune systems probably should exercise caution.

People get colds and flus all the time----I feel like people should be tested----but I find that almost all (at the least) will be negative for the coronavirus.



beneficii
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26 Feb 2020, 7:28 pm

Sorry I had to get it from DB, but everything else is behind a paywall that I could find (emphasis added):

Quote:
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has been informed of the first U.S. coronavirus case of an unknown origin, an indication that the virus may be spreading. According to The Washington Post, the Northern California patient did not recently return from a foreign country or have contact with a confirmed case. Officials have begun tracing the contacts of the individual to find out how the person was infected and who they potentially exposed.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/first-us- ... california


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beneficii
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26 Feb 2020, 8:45 pm

American man comes back from China and gets sick; he thinks he may have coronavirus. He gets tested and it turns out to be negative, but he gets hit with a bill for over $3000 all the same:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health ... 76806.html

Now, the insurance will let him whittle that bill down to $1400, but only if he proves he has had no preexisting condition related to his flu within the past 3 years. This is because his insurance is one of those junk plans that Trump has allowed.

Not a good look if you're trying to get a handle on the coronavirus situation stateside.


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beneficii
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26 Feb 2020, 10:14 pm

This is bad:

Quote:
The California Department of Public Health reported Wednesday the individual is a resident of Solano County who had no known exposure to the virus through travel or close contact with a known infected individual.

An email sent out Wednesday by two UC Davis officials said the patient arrived at the medical center in Sacramento last Wednesday but was only tested for the virus on Sunday despite a request made by med center officials that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention conduct a test when the patient was admitted.

“Today the CDC confirmed the patient’s test was positive,” said the email from David Lubarsky, vice-chancellor of human health services, and Brad Simmons, interim CEO of UC Davis Medical Center.

...

“Upon admission, our team asked public health officials if this case could be COVID-19. We requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, since neither Sacramento County nor (the California Department of Public Health) is doing testing for coronavirus at this time. Since the patient did not fit the existing CDC criteria for COVID-19, a test was not immediately administered,” said the email, which added that, “UC Davis Health does not control the testing process.”

On Sunday, the CDC ordered COVID-19 testing of the patient and the patient was put on airborne precautions and strict contact precautions. The positive test results were announced on Wednesday.


https://www.davisenterprise.com/local-n ... al-center/

The California Department of Public Health says this was a case of community transmission, that is, transmission unrelated to travel and not between close contacts:

Quote:
This would be the first known instance of person-to-person transmission in the general public in the United States. Previously known instances of person-to-person transmission in the United States include one instance in Chicago, Illinois, and one in San Benito County, California. Both cases were after close, prolonged interaction with a family member who returned from Wuhan, China and had tested positive for COVID-19, the disease caused by novel coronavirus. As of today, including this case, California has had 7 travel-related cases, one close contact case, and now one community transmission.


https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/OPA/Pa ... 0-006.aspx


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Shabrem
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26 Feb 2020, 10:39 pm

firemonkey wrote:
EzraS wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Just saw tweet saying a leaked govt document says if 80% in UK get the virus 500K could die.


In 2018, there were 541,589 deaths registered in England and Wales.


They could mean an extra 500K , on top of the figure you quoted .


Or not. I will panic when it is time to panic. Not there yet.



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26 Feb 2020, 10:45 pm

ouinon2 wrote:
( and as you say above this would be in addition to normal deaths )

"Would" or "could". It is all speculation, atm.
I have been through so many scares in my life that I have developed panic fatigue. Always time to panic later.



ouinon2
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27 Feb 2020, 2:29 am

Shabrem wrote:
"Would" or "could". It is all speculation, atm.
I have been through so many scares in my life that I have developed panic fatigue. Always time to panic later.

Yes, don't panic, there's actually never any point doing that, but preparation can be useful, eg. stocking up on basic dry and tinned food stores, medicines, etc, as Fnord's posted quote ( at bottom of page 28 ), from a blog, suggests doing. :)

It's true, we don't know what is going to happen, but, as I said already
ouinon2 wrote:
... the existing data so far indicates that if containment fails, as it seems it is doing, and if the virus isn't completely wiped out by warmer drier weather over the summer, ( as if the Southern Hemisphere didn't exist :( ), and if it doesn't mutate to a milder strain, ( unlikely apparently because of something about the RNA/DNA strand structure of this virus ), and if, as reliably indicated, a vaccine ( even if discovered now ) would not be available for at least a year, it *is* capable of infecting 40%-70% of the population, of making 20% of those infected very ill requiring hospitalisation/serious medical care, and of killing 10% of them, or approximately 2%-3% of the generally infected, ( which in the case of the UK, for example, would mean between 500K - 900K dead people ).

It is apparently much more infectious/"easily spreadable" than SARS, contagious in the absence of symptoms, and 10-25 times more deadly than most flu strains. This is the threat.

.... and as the WHO has been saying, virtually *no* country appears to be prepared to deal with this specific threat, most particularly the whole of Africa, much of the Middle East and near Asia, including as those do many war zones, refugee camps, porous borders and exhausted health system infrastructure, etc, and even some of the over-stretched health services of many Western nations, especially as many are already struggling to cope ( "corridor care" a new normal ), with the increasing numbers of old people, and younger, with chronic degenerative illnesses like diabetes and heart disease, both of which are apparently significant additional risk factors in Covid-19 fatality rates.

I think that it is important to take this seriously and think about how to prepare for the potentially widespread disruption that it may cause, whether that of sudden quarantine restrictions and associated loss of freedoms, disrupted trade routes resulting in shortages of food and other essential supplies such as medicines, etc, among other things in the short term, and in the longer term who knows, as countries face pressure over how much to spend on saving people ... ( not just from dying, but also from job loss, bankruptcy, etc ... ) ...

NB. .... .... which political decision-making I'm thinking might turn out to be the biggest challenge ... as it tends to end up being in a lot of infection/zombie/catastrophe stories.

People keep saying it's just like the flu, but it's not.

I've bought two months of food stores, somewhat like Fnord's post listed, :) ( rice, lentils, oil, tinned fish, nuts and seeds, dried fruit, pickled vegetables, tomato concentrate, herb salt etc, tea , honey, and multipacks of toilet roll, kitchen towel, washing up liquid, paracetamol etc ), because I really don't like the sound of the sudden quarantines, or the supply line disruptions etc. I'm not panicking, just preparing for some possible problems.



Last edited by ouinon2 on 27 Feb 2020, 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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27 Feb 2020, 2:48 am

firemonkey wrote:
EzraS wrote:
The truth about coronavirus 19: If you catch it, most likely you will have a bad case of the flu and recover.


You're young . There's a very good chance you'd survive . There's talk of rationing care in the UK based on likelihood to survive . At 63 there's a good chance I'd not be on the care list .

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 61916.html


Young but with respiratory issues that put me at high risk. I already died from that once. I am sure there is a whole lot of scary talk going on.



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27 Feb 2020, 3:00 am

Joe90 wrote:
I do think the world is making such a big thing out of this. Yes it can be dangerous to the elderly or those with illnesses but so can about 500 other viruses and diseases that people die of every day. You can never be too careful. Yes, be hygienic and warn the public not to go out if they think they may have the coronavirus, but shutting schools and doctors surgeries or keeping people on a cruise ship for days just because a person sneezed is really going over the top in my opinion.


There you go. The world was in a huge panic over sars and ebola and now this.



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27 Feb 2020, 3:06 am

For comparison/reference, here's the weekly national flu map — influenza is currently widespread in every state except Idaho and Oregon (where it's regionally present). Click the animation and you can watch it spread.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/usmap.htm


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ouinon2
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27 Feb 2020, 5:17 am

Darmok wrote:
For comparison/reference, here's the weekly national flu map — influenza is currently widespread in every state except Idaho and Oregon (where it's regionally present).

Yes, influenza has been around for over 100 years, and is pretty much global now. But when the first strain of modern influenza appeared, in 1917, it overwhelmed health services and killed more than all the victims of the first and second world wars combined.

" ... when you consider that a third of the entire global population probably caught the Spanish flu and that it killed between 50 and 100 million people in all corners of the globe – up to 5% of all human beings on the planet at the time – you get an inkling of its scale." Martin Kettle for The Guardian

... and the coronavirus/Covid-19 is a new ( "novel" ) strain which spreads fast, is 10 - 25 times more deadly ( depending on age, existing health conditions etc ) than flu, ( and it has already killed four times more people in 8 weeks than SARS did in 8 months ) ... for which, unlike influenza, there is still no vaccine or agreed treatment protocol.



Shabrem
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27 Feb 2020, 5:26 am

ouinon2 wrote:
Shabrem wrote:
"Would" or "could". It is all speculation, atm.
I have been through so many scares in my life that I have developed panic fatigue. Always time to panic later.

Yes, don't panic, there's actually never any point doing that, but preparation can be useful, eg. stocking up on basic dry and tinned food stores, medicines, etc, as Fnord's posted quote ( at bottom of page 28 ), from a blog, suggests doing. :)



I have already done that. I will be topping up before it hits.



EzraS
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27 Feb 2020, 7:44 am

Lots of people stocked up for Y2K.

After 9/11 lots of people stocked up again and bought gas masks and so on for the impending terrorist attacks.



Biscuitman
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27 Feb 2020, 7:54 am

EzraS wrote:
Lots of people stocked up for Y2K


I am not sure they did.

Billions and billions were spent worldwide to make sure amendments were made so nothing bad happened. I remember the build up to it well and my brother worked on the IT helpdesk at Vodafone that night and there were only skeleton staff in as by that point all the work had been done. By the time winter of 2019 had come around Y2K was mostly looked at (well known hysterical newspapers aside) in light hearted terms with shops selling 'millennium bug' cuddly toys etc