[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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Cornflake
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18 Oct 2023, 3:45 am

Cornflake wrote:

Several posts have been removed.

Making accusations and piling on to a named member because they don't express the same view as others is not acceptable - it's the antithesis of discussion.

Considering the experience of contributors to this thread it's shocking that this should need to be stated at all.

If you disagree, explain why without resorting to accusations and attacks.
If you can't manage that, say nothing.

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TwilightPrincess
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18 Oct 2023, 4:59 am

Boo, what is the situation like in Beirut right now?

Edit: This is extremely concerning.

Quote:

Lebanon's Hezbollah denounced what the group said was Israel's deadly attack on a Gaza hospital and called for "a day of unprecedented anger" on Wednesday, as protests erupted outside the U.S. embassy in Beirut just hours after the incident.

Iran-backed Hezbollah, which fought a war with Israel in 2006, made the call for the day pf protest in Beirut in a statement late on Tuesday, after Palestinian officials said hundreds of people were killed in the strike on the hospital.

Israel's military denied responsibility for the bombing, saying military intelligence suggested the hospital was hit by a failed rocket launch by the enclave's Palestinian Islamic Jihad military group.

Islamic Jihad denied that any of its rockets were involved in the hospital blast.

Hundreds of Lebanese protesters, some waving Palestinian flags, gathered late into Tuesday night outside the U.S. embassy in response to the incident. Others gathered outside the French embassy in Beirut.

Tear gas was fired at protesters near the U.S. embassy in Lebanon.

In denouncing what the group said was a strike by Israel, Hezbollah said in its statement: "The attack reveals the true criminal face of this entity and its sponsor ... the United States, which bears direct and complete responsibility for this massacre."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 023-10-17/

MaxE
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18 Oct 2023, 5:57 am

I read the AP report which gives no indication anybody knows what caused the explosion. BTW it just said it was an explosion. It doesn't lead one to assume it was caused by a rocket or that anybody saw from what direction the hypothetical rocket came. There's no reason to believe anyone who claims to know who's responsible. Even if they do know, you have no compelling reason to believe them. Most people will assign blame based on their prejudices. If you hate Arabs then you blame Arabs. If you hate Muslims then you blame Muslims. If you hate Jews then you blame Jews. Nobody gives a flying f**k about evidence. So why even talk about it. Russia invaded Ukraine and since then people have been dying there. Hamas invaded Israel and now people are dying there. I don't see any real difference.

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TwilightPrincess
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18 Oct 2023, 6:03 am

^ We’re talking about it because it’s going to have far-reaching consequences, I fear. Hospitals don’t generally have explosions without bombs, rockets, etc.

MaxE wrote:

Russia invaded Ukraine and since then people have been dying there. Hamas invaded Israel and now people are dying there. I don't see any real difference.

At this point and historically, it seems more like Israel is invading Palestine, not that I condone the abhorrent behavior of Hamas. My issue is with all who were directly involved, not civilians.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 18 Oct 2023, 6:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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18 Oct 2023, 6:10 am

MaxE wrote:

Nobody gives a flying f**k about evidence.So why even talk about it. Russia invaded Ukraine and since then people have been dying there. Hamas invaded Israel and now people are dying there. I don't see any real difference.

If there were no Russian/Ukraine threads then you'd have a point but as there are threads on this topic and the disinformation I don't see what you are getting at.

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MaxE
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18 Oct 2023, 6:31 am

Recidivist wrote:

MaxE wrote:

If there were no Russian/Ukraine threads then you'd have a point but as there are threads on this topic and the disinformation I don't see what you are getting at.

My point is you have wars and innocent people die, and still people want to talk about the justification for the war rather than the impact that war has on ordinary people.

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Nades
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18 Oct 2023, 7:10 am

Well it all seems to be escalating quickly.

Hamas is still obviously in the wrong. I don't know the ins an outs of the political dynamics in that area over the years and I'm not going to pretend I do but if Israel is genuinely showing years of animosity towards Hamas, I'm not surprised.

ASPartOfMe
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18 Oct 2023, 9:38 am

FWIW
NBC Live Updates

Quote:

Misfired rocket by Palestinian Islamic Jihad likely caused Gaza hospital blast, U.S. officials say
The U.S. has an independent assessment that it was a Palestinian Islamic Jihad group rocket that misfired and hit the hospital in Gaza, according to two senior U.S. officials.

Biden said earlier, before a meeting with Netanyahu, that the blast appeared to be caused by the "other team." Asked later what made him confident the Israelis weren’t behind the hospital strike, he said: “The data I was shown by my Defense Department.”

Gaza hospital blast upends U.S. diplomacy
The Gaza hospital blast has upended international politics again, putting U.S. diplomatic efforts at risk.

The United Arab Emirates is a close U.S. ally and signatory to the Abraham Accords that built bridges with Israel. Overnight, the Gulf state strongly condemned what it called the ‘Israeli attack that targeted Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital,’ despite Israel denying responsibility and blaming Palestinian militants.

Today, the UAE has joined Russia and China in supporting a United Nations Security Council emergency meeting on the issue, while the U.N. secretary-general called for an “immediate humanitarian cease-fire” and said Hamas “attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.”

But it is where he made those comments that may be just as notable: He was speaking in China. Developing countries have gathered at a conference to salute Beijing’s investment around the world. Russian President Vladimir Putin is there and told reporters the hospital bombing is ‘a terrible event' that he hopes 'will be a signal that this conflict should be ended as quickly as possible.’

It's another indication that Russia and China will look to use events in Gaza to further attempt to win over hearts and minds in the Middle East and developing countries.

Meanwhile, the Western push to secure the release of hostages is at the very least on hold. A diplomat with knowledge of the talks told NBC News the hospital blast has ‘made it impossible for Hamas to do anything now even if they’re willing.’

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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 18 Oct 2023, 9:48 am, edited 3 times in total.

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18 Oct 2023, 9:43 am

MaxE wrote:

Recidivist wrote:

MaxE wrote:

If there were no Russian/Ukraine threads then you'd have a point but as there are threads on this topic and the disinformation I don't see what you are getting at.

My point is you have wars and innocent people die, and still people want to talk about the justification for the war rather than the impact that war has on ordinary people.

I think this thread is a mixture of both, do you want me to highlight the posts that mention the impact on civilians for you?. The third member in this thread mentions the civilians.

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ASPartOfMe
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18 Oct 2023, 10:02 am

Recidivist wrote:

^ Who or what is 'Israel War Room' , I don't do Twitter , do they have any official capacity apart from having a Twitter account?

I don’t know about the twitter account but when the media uses the term they are referring to these three men.
Benjamin Netanyahu

Yoav Gallant - Defense Minister

Benny Gantz - Member of opposition party and political rival to Netanyahu. Former Prime Minister, and IDF General.

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 18 Oct 2023, 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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18 Oct 2023, 10:15 am

^ Thanks dude, I also doubt it's their joint Twitter account.

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Jono
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18 Oct 2023, 11:40 am

I've now seen multiple news reports claiming that there's proof that the blast at the hospital was not caused by Israel. The IDF have apparently done a press interview where they have not only claimed to have analysis on satellite images in visual and infra red ranges but they've also apparently released an audio recording of two Hamas combatants admitting that it was a rocket sent by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

MaxE
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18 Oct 2023, 11:55 am

Recidivist wrote:

MaxE wrote:

Recidivist wrote:

MaxE wrote:

If there were no Russian/Ukraine threads then you'd have a point but as there are threads on this topic and the disinformation I don't see what you are getting at.

My point is you have wars and innocent people die, and still people want to talk about the justification for the war rather than the impact that war has on ordinary people.

I think this thread is a mixture of both, do you want me to highlight the posts that mention the impact on civilians for you?. The third member in this thread mentions the civilians.

My point was just that if a shell lands on your house it won't matter to you personally who launched it.

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18 Oct 2023, 12:12 pm

MaxE wrote:

My point was just that if a shell lands on your house it won't matter to you personally who launched it.

What? Do you mean because I would be dead, is that your point, that the dead don't have feelings and it doesn't matter to them who killed them as they are dead - really?

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TwilightPrincess
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18 Oct 2023, 12:35 pm

I think he means that it doesn’t matter to them who did it because they’re dead either way.

The problem is that it does matter to a lot of people and is probably going to have far-reaching consequences although it’s just one drop in the bucket to be honest. It’s not like this is the only awful thing that’s been committed by either side.

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18 Oct 2023, 12:41 pm

In a situation such as this where there are conflicting blame I like to take into account motivation before I suspect a party.

I do not see a realistic Israeli motivation. What would they gain by intentionally targeting a hospital? This incident has hurt their chances of eliminating Hamas. Even assuming the motivation is genocide they are aware that public opinion hurts their chances or delays the genocide. Be it saying Hamas was there, allowing “corridors” shows a keen awareness of public opinion.

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