LOTS of manga/anime now illegal in Sweden; soon to be in EU

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That looks utterly stupid and verges on making no sense. Good to see the Pirate Party watching the progress though, they have a seat or two in the EU Parliament.

They have two seats... the Swedish Miljöpartiet and Vänsterpartiet have also expressly stated that they are against the drawings being illegal part (as it is in Sweden, anyway), at least, but I don't know if they are being active about it, nor if they maybe are for the other crazy parts. I guess I should call them.

Yup.... every EU citizen should prepare for great amounts of anime and manga soon becoming illegal in the EU, as it is in Sweden. I personally think I will move to Norway, in the future, if I can (unless they have the same laws, already). Either that or suddenly becoming unbelievably wealthy and buying the island of Åland, making it a new country, run by me. Most there don't even really seem to want to be a part of Finland, anyway. Of course, I'll unfortunately never become that rich so I guess Norway is the best option, if they actually do qualify.

Considering Pirate Parties around the world believe in digital freedom and less censorship, they're probably against it altogether. Ring them up and e-mail them, and get other people to do so, too, then they'll start to get active if they haven't already.

I hope that, at the very least, if this law goes through, they make it much less stupid. I mean, adults dressed in a way which can be interpreted as childish is the same as child porn? Really?

Their reasoning obviously is that all child pornography has to be stopped, regardless of how you reach that goal. I hate (real) child pornography more than most other things that I hate, but I am aware that the world is shìt and that you only can do limited things to make it better. I also am a socialist, but unlike the socialists that have gone mad around the world, during history, I am aware that no utopia can exist. This is no different. These people just instead shout "child porn", and almost no one dares to object, regardless what the solutions against it are, since... well, it's child porn, right...? Ugh, people are so enormously dumb. -_-; A lie is best told between two truths...

The really scary thing is that, over here, there's a censorship system on 99% of ISPs which is intended to block such things. It's been abused before by the organisation that runs it, the IWF - they once blocked Wikipedia for everyone in the country. And if this s**t goes through, they may start blocking things which meet that criteria too.

This is exactly why censorship is bad, even for "reasonable" goals - when you start censoring one thing, you'll end up having to censor something else, until you've turned your country into 1984.

But yes, you make a good point. They can pass whatever the hell they want, and implement whatever censorship they want, if they can just resort to calling anyone who opposes it a paedophile.

You clearly have no idea of what 'interpret' means with regards to law. It has a very specific meaning, different from normal language usuage. If you look it up you will see that hyperbolic argument does not come into it.

Pfft, yeah, right. And there's that word you used, again: hyperbole. What a fine word to make use of when you have nothing good to say in a heated argument.

Sounds a bit off topic, but please tell me that this doesn't mean everyone in pigtails, that is by far my favourite hairstyle ever.

On the topic side, sorry to hear of this, especially since this already happened in your country. I'm not some promoter of child pornography, and I don't know what eechi is exactly like, but surely it can't be bad. Anyone that looks under 18? Would this include those at are obviously adults? I don't read manga, I only watched Rozen Maiden and Pokemon.

That is because it is the perfect word to describe your argument. You are using exaggeration to elicit an emotional response in the reader so they'll join your crusade. Take your 'interpretation' up page, that's pure sensationalism. Any first year law student would know that it cannot be interpreted as such because that is not what 'interpret' means in a legal context.

You seem to know better what "interpret" means, in this context, than Piratpartiet, Miljöpartiet and Folkpartiet, and to a big degree also Vänsterpartiet, who all see what I see. Also, that was just the word that *I* translated with, as the meaning is the same as what I am talking about. What you are talking about is irrelevant and has nothing to do with this. You take one word out of its context and try to make me seem as a liar, or someone who's misinformed.


Other than that... I have not reached Socialdemokraterna for a comment, yet, nor Centerpartiet. It does, however, turn out that Vänsterpartiet supported the anti-drawing part of the Swedish 1999 law, when it was made, but they clearly admit that this has backfired and that, indeed, the way it is INTERPRETED has turned out bad, and that it's wrong the way the law now is. It's pointless contacting Moderaterna and Kristdemokraterna, though, as they already fully support it. Sverigedemokraterna most likely also support it, and they aren't in the EU parliament, anyway, so it's pointless contacting them.

Actually, I wrote this a bit incorrectly. First of all, I forgot about the part about sexual interpretation being thrown in there, and this is an example of how it well can be *interpreted*, like how the drawings were interpreted in the court cases in Sweden. What the suggested legislation (that still can be changed) in this particular regard states is photographs of people in sexually interpreted situations that "give the impression of" being below eighteen.

I'd also like to point out that what I posted, before, are not the exact wordings of Piratpartiet, but my own rewritings of what I have been told after being in correspondence with them. Those who require confirmation on this can get in contact with Piratpartiet (www.piratpartiet.se).

What I am saying is 100% relevant. When a mathematician is working out the value of x in an equation he has to apply the rules of maths. If he instead applies his own opinions of what those rules should be his results will be invalid. It's the same for law. There are a set of rules which have to applied when interpreting a law. Judges are not allowed to interpret them in their own way. When a judge gives his decision he has to explain exactly how he has applied the rules of law to come to that decision. If he steps outside of the rules of interpretation, his decision would be overturned.

All of the organisations you have listed above are political parties with their own agendas and opinions. When they give an interpretation of what the law means they saying what they think and are using their own opinions, perceptions, rhetoric, hyperbole, propoganda, political agenda etc to make their argument. That's what politicians do whatever side of the argument they are on.

As someone who has to apply the rules of law every day I can hand on heart tell you that the examples of what this law means, which you have given in this thread, have no basis in legal reasoning. So I'm sorry, but yes I do think that you are misinformed.

One of your examples was that under this law for someone over 18, having their hair in pigtails and wearing skirt with Scottish square patterns could be against the law. Therefore I throw down my gauntlet before you and say, prove it. If what you say is correct, you will have no problem demonstrationing how this decision could come about if the rules of law are applied to the law.

Prove it.

Because I'm feeling generous and because the Race Relations Act 1976 is making my eyes bleed so I need a distraction, would you like me to give you a brief summary of the rules of interpretation for law? That way you can look at laws yourself with a legal hat on rather than relying on the faulty reasoning of others.

ecchi translates into 'erotica' for all practical purposes. Anime uses 'ecchi' in both underage and adult characters mostly in non-nude ways. For example many manga use the stereotypical schoolgirl whose uniform thats a bit too tight.. no nudity is shown but it is a way of sexualizing the character in order to create an awkward erotica moment for the primary character (bleeding nose stereotype).

Rozen maiden is an example of a manga that would get banned. the main characters (dolls) are literally children sized and proportioned ..and though they do not engage in porn they do say/do things that would be considered ecchi in nature.... and that is all that is needed for the censorship witch-hunters to ban it.

Well, you've heard what they did to Julian Assange despite the arrest being an incredibly obvious conspiracy.

Personally I don't care about manga at all, however this page indicates that the 'age of consent' throughout the EU seems to average out to about 15 or 16, instead of the age of 18, which would make the law out of line with EU social norms.