5-year-old stabs 3 people over a juice box

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Okay, I was not familiar with mens rea. Thanks for clearing that up.

Yeah, we need like a little kiddie prison. Don't they call that time out? Just joking, I'm being facetious. There are serious psychological issues going on that need to be addressed, and my point is that no current prison or juvenile hall that is suitable for a 5 year old obviously. So the question is what is to be done?

The kid is not a psychopath. He responded out of impulsive anger. His actions were not deliberate or calculated. There is something going on either at school or at home or in daycare that needs to be addressed. Just my opinion. 99% of the time there is some deeper societal issue going on.

I find these arguments strange because I was never a "bad" child. Some children are naughty, some aren't. This whole idea of tribal mentality and "children are cruel" is a little far-fetched if you ask me. I was not a bad kid. I never had any desire whatsoever to stab people or hit people or anything like that.

It is my opinion that children learn bad behavior, they are not born "bad." If they are surrounded by bad influences, they will behave badly, if they are not surrounded by bad influences, they will not behave badly. Maybe I am wrong, I don't know.

On the contrary, they learn good behaviour, and if you were never naughty as a kid you learned well, as do most kids, but my point is that this is only the case because we learn our society's rules. In reference to this particular case, we have no idea whether or not this kid is a psychopath - he very well could be given the exceptional extreme nature of these actions.

Either way, I stand by my original point: he deserves to be punished in some legal sense.

the court should have legal permission to take toys away from childhood offenders.

we cannot say someone is evil... At all... it is a relative concept.

Some religions say that a woman appearing with a bared ankle is an act of evil.
There are tribes that feel eating another human being is acceptable.
Animal rights activists say that eating animals is evil.
Some religions say that buttons are evil.

The concept of evil is purely based on one's morals, and those are typically a construct of the society in which one lives.

Most states in the US will not charge a child 12 or under with a crime as an adult. The argument is that their cognitive reasoning has not grown to the point where they can understand the total effects of their own actions.

Studies have proven that jail time doesn't fix anything. All it does is make better criminals. Putting a child in that environment would screw them up for good. That would be "evil" in my book.

On the subject of crime... there are some really stupid things that are crimes... for instance... in lousiana, if you have ever given yourself a serious burn (defined by medical professionals as anything beyond a first degree burn, such as a bad sun burn that blisters), you can be imprisoned if you do not report it to the fire marshal. In new orleans, it is illegal for a woman to drive a car unless her husband is waving a flag in front of it. So the definition of crime is dodgy at best in most cases.

That being said. The boy needs help.

And what is logical about bringing in the law to deal with a 5 year old for something they don't even understand, let alone have any idea about any laws pertaining to it? It looks as though maybe you're emotions are very much a part of your argument as that is totally illogical.

Sure if a child stabs people with a pencil over a juice box they should be punished in most instances, but they don't need to be arrested, jailed and forced to go to trial I mean come one we're talking about a 5 year old.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 28 Feb 2012, 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Aspie-Z I posit that, in this case, your logic is flawed.

A pair of 7 month old twins are playing. Twin A takes the rattle that belongs to Twin B. At this point, by the laws of Louisiana, Twin A is now guilty of the crime of theft. (Theft is the misappropriation or taking of anything of value which belongs to another, either without the consent of the other) By your reasoning, we now need to put Twin A into the criminal justice system.

Okay, I think I see your point now.

I guess my view like others have said is that the current legal laws have no adequate way of dealing with this kind of situation. As others have said, prison wouldn't really accomplish anything. Even a hypothetical "kiddy prison" suitable to children would probably not accomplish much if the child were to just be put in this "prison" for a short amount of time and just come out of it bitter and angry.

As an example, let's say someone over 18 has committed rape. The person is certainly rational enough to be subject to prison. But let's say you only put the person behind bars for a year. When the person comes out of prison, will their behavior actually change, or will they simply return to their old ways? Evidence seems to show that the person will revert to their own ways.

I'm not sure this question has a clear-cut answer. But the fact still remains that there is no current punishment currently available to deal with a 5-year old crime. Am I wrong here? I mean what do you suggest as a practical solution to this problem? You cannot put a 5-year old in prison for life most definitely. You cannot put a 5-year old in juvenile hall because that is just cruel. What is the practical solution to this problem? What is the specific, practical solution to this problem?

As I said, I think this kid should have a criminal record. Perhaps the parents could have a fine too.

In response to all the "but this is just a kid!" posts: Children should be punished for their actions because it teaches them that said actions are wrong. If a kid does something so bad it breaks the law and you just let them get away with it, they won't learn it's wrong. If they go to a big scary courtroom and get told this action is put on record, that experience alone will scare them away from doing such things again - they'll know it wasn't acceptable.

May I ask: who said he should not be punished?

Punishment doesn't need to be in the criminal justice system.

Do you feel that Twin A should have a criminal record in my previous example?

What your aiming for sounds like a police state so, no thanks.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 28 Feb 2012, 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Agreed

Even though the idea of a 5 year old being charged with a crime is utterly and completely ridiculous...I am sure in this instance he could get off on insanity. As if its determined the individual in question does not understand what they did was wrong/illegal, or commited the crime on uncontrollable impulse and I forget the other ones but it was discussed in my Abnormal Psychology.

Oh yeah, punishing people for breaking the law is real oppressive...

The behavior is obviously unusual and they are taking it serious for good reason. Whatever they do they will have to keep a watch on this child for potential problems in the future.

I notice you are not addressing my scenario. May I ask why?