"Innocence of Muslims" doesn't exist ???

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Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 4:14 pm

Pileo wrote:

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It's a personal opinion. I can show you a website that breaks down Islamist terrorist attacks in detail, though. They're from a variety of causes, but almost all of them have religion as the main cause or one of the main causes. The terrorist organisations almost always proclaim that they do what they do in the name of Islam, and this is fully backed up by the Quran.

Post it.

Here is an excerpt from the website "Islam - A Religion Based On Terrorism":

Quote:

Islam has no fundamental concept of Inalienable Rights as mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. Islam does not permit the individual to enjoy the freedoms of action and association characteristic of the Democracy that so many Western cultures currently enjoy today. Islam is a religion in name only because of a reference to "Allah" as their Deity. A well known fact is that Islam is a totalitarian ideology that rejects Democracy, personal freedom, and every other religion. The ideals of anti-Semitism and anti-Western Culture run rampant throughout Islam. The Laws of Man are meaningless and have absolutely no relevance in Muslim culture because they are without any direct reference to the Koran or Shariah Law and therefore they have no place in Muslim life. Islamic law is completely incompatible with Freedom, Democracy, or any other government where the people have an actual voice in government or the will of the people matters.

"True Islam permits neither elections nor democracy." -- Sufi Mohammed, Muslim Cleric

visagrunt
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21 Sep 2012, 4:46 pm

Congratulations you have found an extremist uttering an extreme position. And I can provide you with a quote from a 20th century, elected, Christian head of government who said, "one man, one vote in this country is out."

If I am intelligent enough to conclude that P.W. Botha did not speak for all Christians, then perhaps you are intelligent enough to believe that Sufi Mohammed does not speak for all Muslims.

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Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 5:07 pm

visagrunt wrote:

If I am intelligent enough to conclude that P.W. Botha did not speak for all Christians, then perhaps you are intelligent enough to believe that Sufi Mohammed does not speak for all Muslims.

I am intelligent enough to believe that one man does not speak for an entire religion -- even the Pope.

However ... have you actually read the Qur'an? Muhammad the "Prophet" makes Sufi Mohammed seem like Mohandas Gandhi.

The Qur’an says:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors." -- Qur'an 2:190

"And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter." -- Qur'an 2:191

"And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and Faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression." -- Qur'an 2:193

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not." -- Qur'an 2:216

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular Prayers and practise regular Charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." -- Qur'an 9:5

Last edited by Fnord on 21 Sep 2012, 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Prof_Pretorius
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21 Sep 2012, 5:15 pm

Fnord wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

If I am intelligent enough to conclude that P.W. Botha did not speak for all Christians, then perhaps you are intelligent enough to believe that Sufi Mohammed does not speak for all Muslims.

I am intelligent enough to believe that one man does not speak for an entire religion -- even the Pope.

However ... have you actually read the Quran? Muhammad the "Prophet" makes Sufi Mohammed seem like Mohandas Gandhi.

I do believe it's the only religion that says "convert or die."

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Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 5:18 pm

Prof_Pretorius wrote:

Fnord wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

If I am intelligent enough to conclude that P.W. Botha did not speak for all Christians, then perhaps you are intelligent enough to believe that Sufi Mohammed does not speak for all Muslims.

I am intelligent enough to believe that one man does not speak for an entire religion -- even the Pope. However ... have you actually read the Quran? Muhammad the "Prophet" makes Sufi Mohammed seem like Mohandas Gandhi.

I do believe it's the only religion that says "convert or die."

Roman Catholic / Jesuit / Spanish Inquisition comes to mind, but they are no longer such a threat ... unless you're a prepubescent choir boy ...

Prof_Pretorius
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21 Sep 2012, 5:19 pm

Fnord wrote:

Prof_Pretorius wrote:

Fnord wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

If I am intelligent enough to conclude that P.W. Botha did not speak for all Christians, then perhaps you are intelligent enough to believe that Sufi Mohammed does not speak for all Muslims.

I am intelligent enough to believe that one man does not speak for an entire religion -- even the Pope. However ... have you actually read the Quran? Muhammad the "Prophet" makes Sufi Mohammed seem like Mohandas Gandhi.

I do believe it's the only religion that says "convert or die."

Roman Catholic / Jesuit / Spanish Inquisition comes to mind, but they are no longer such a threat ... unless you're a prepubescent choir boy ...

Talk about hitting the high notes....blimey.

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Pileo
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21 Sep 2012, 5:43 pm

Fnord wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

If I am intelligent enough to conclude that P.W. Botha did not speak for all Christians, then perhaps you are intelligent enough to believe that Sufi Mohammed does not speak for all Muslims.

The Christian Bible says some gnarly stuff too ("Let's destroy a whole city because of butt sex!"). Different cheek, same ass. They are both Abrahamic religions afterall, essentially siblings.

I'll have to look for citations later, as I have an appointment to attend.

Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 5:45 pm

Pileo wrote:

Fnord wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

If I am intelligent enough to conclude that P.W. Botha did not speak for all Christians, then perhaps you are intelligent enough to believe that Sufi Mohammed does not speak for all Muslims.

No worries. I'm no great fan of Christianity, either.

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21 Sep 2012, 5:47 pm

Fnord wrote:

However ... have you actually read the Qur'an? Muhammad the "Prophet" makes Sufi Mohammed seem like Mohandas Gandhi.

Precisely. If Muslims have this kind of stuff to contend with and they are told that all the horrible things he did (child rape; exhortations to beheadings and killings of non-believers and all the gory and horrible stuff in there) should be emulated and that this is the literal word of Allah and questioning him can lead to your death FFS, I'm not surprised so many Muslims are so violent and screwed up.

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21 Sep 2012, 5:49 pm

Fnord wrote:

No worries. I'm no great fan of Christianity, either.

Precisely. Christianity is bloody horrible, but at least in many parts of the world it no longer kills people for heresy or witchcraft, nor does it treat women like utter slaves, nor does it regularly engage in terrorism. This isn't to say that Christianity is in any way let off the hook.

Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 5:55 pm

Christian Scriptures promote slavery, the subjugation of women, and has not one verse in praise of intelligence.

Prof_Pretorius
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21 Sep 2012, 6:09 pm

Fnord wrote:

Christian Scriptures promote slavery, the subjugation of women, and has not one verse in praise of intelligence.

Old news, let's move on, eh?

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Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 6:40 pm

Prof_Pretorius wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Christian Scriptures promote slavery, the subjugation of women, and has not one verse in praise of intelligence.

Old news, let's move on, eh?

Okay ... How many Scientologists does it take to change a light bulb?

None: The lightbulb must first pay $80,000 to become clear, then it will have the self-determinism to effect its own changing.

Pileo
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21 Sep 2012, 9:55 pm

Fnord wrote:

Prof_Pretorius wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Christian Scriptures promote slavery, the subjugation of women, and has not one verse in praise of intelligence.

Old news, let's move on, eh?

Okay ... How many Scientologists does it take to change a light bulb?

None: The lightbulb must first pay $80,000 to become clear, then it will have the self-determinism to effect its own changing.

What does a Scientologist do if they're gay? Marry Katie Holmes.

Quote:

Old news, let's move on, eh?

Old but relevant. Christianity and Islam are very similar religions. They even share religious figures and places of interest. The biggest difference between the two is the difference of culture ASSOCIATED with them. Currently many Christians are slamming Muslims (including American Muslims, who aren't offended by the sight of Muhammad) for the Quran even though their bible has very, very familiar messages. It's hypocritical and it's a hypocrisy that already has cost lives of innocent people.

I feel that the Christians in power in the US are trying to drive us to war with Muslims. I don't know about you, but I am 100% against a religious war. Both sides are trying to justify the war, but when you get down to it, it's just religion hating other religions. If it wasn't about religion, we'd be focusing on the real problem which is the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

In the game of thrones, don't blame the pawns. They're not players.

Prof_Pretorius
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24 Sep 2012, 4:53 am

So now the news finally says that the "movie" was not the cause of the violence. The USA State Dept was warned that there would be an uprising, and the "movie" was just a smokescreen.

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Sylkat
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24 Sep 2012, 2:32 pm

Dear Professor, that is so VERY true...once again, there was some knowledge, some warnings,and no precautions taken, going all the way back to Pearl Harbor!

The ones who choose to disregard threats or warnings are never the ones who suffer the consequences......

Sylkat

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