The gummint screwed up again

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For starters, even if the worst case scenario comes true and in 20 years, the trust is gone, payments will still be made. They will just be reduced to the amount being collected in SS taxes. And the worst case scenario assumes: 1) unemployment will not go down. 2) wages will not increase faster than the current rate. 3) no changes to the SS program whatsoever. 4) birth rates will not rise. 5) baby boomers will not continue working past retirement. 6) current rates of workers going on disability will not go down.

As I have repeatedly said, the program is not going to last in its current form. As I have also said, there are plenty of things that can be done to fix many of the problems with the program. Your dystopian predictions are coming way too early.




It is not ok with me. I never said it was. I am only saying that your claims of higher crime and gang violence are faulty. And even if they weren't, I don't see how SS would have anything to do with it.

Thelibrarian wrote:

Check your facts.



I am not going to argue about whether music causes a complete lack of disrespect for human life. It is a silly argument that once again has nothing to do with SS.



I don't understand why you assume I have no regard for humanity. My arguments are about not making people's lives more painful in the long run.



You accuse me of lying about what it's like where
I live? Seriously? Do you really believe that every city has combat zones where people are just shooting up the place?



Open border policies? What country do you live in again? Accusing me of being callous? That's rich coming from someone who has no problem eliminating a program that would put 20-40% of those over 65 into poverty.



I assume you are young and healthy, mostly due to the fact that you seem to know little about how SS actually works.
And do you really believe that Gandhi's way involved the stacking of dead bodies? Are you saying that the American way is to ignore the less fortunate so that the youth can be better today and have nothing when they are too old to work?

You continue to assume that your SS dollars are just disappearing. If you get your wish and SS goes away, they will. You should be more concerned with fixing a broken system and less focused on eliminating it because some people (and not the majority, I might add) will be a tiny bit better today.

Please do not accuse me of being a reptile, inhuman, indifferent, unconcerned about the people of this nation, or some sort of liar again. It is unwarranted. I have been doing my best to keep this discussion civil, and would appreciate if you did the same.

I am looking at the long term big picture. You want to feed young people today and leave them destitute tomorrow, while starving the elderly today and letting them die in the cold tomorrow.

It seems to me that callous is not a word you should throw around lightly.

Bill, though I disagree with you strongly, I have never known you to be so callous about the welfare of others; you have a heart and soul. I hope you continue to worry about justice for all, including young Americans who currently have no voice.

Having said this, I hope you feel better.

I served in the military for 6 years. I vote every single time. I believe in a nation where freedom of speech, religious and racial tolerance, and an environment of helping those less fortunate are all very important.

Just out of curiosity, what do you consider being American?

Last time I checked, young people still have the right to vote.

Yes, I do about the young and the old. That's why I'm all for keeping the social security and medicare systems going at all costs. Fix them as we go if we have to. Better yet, find a permanent solution, but keep them going. The fact is, without them, people in need would die, and that's unacceptable by any moral standards.

Sir, I took my valuable time to counter every contention you made on SS, and successfully did so. As evidenced by your further remarks, you didn't even attempt to counter me; you blithely ignored me, thereby confirming my suspicion that you are some kind of postmodernist for whom reality is an infinitely malleable, plastic plaything.

Therefore, if you put on your Wizard of Oz slippers, click the heels together three times while doubling up on your medical marijuana, you are not only an American, but Chinese, Tongan, and Martian to boot; you are whatever you want to be.

Don't waste my time until you can do better, sir. And that starts with countering my arguments rather than pretending I never made them.

Which arguments of yours have I not addressed? Do you realize how many of my points have you completely dismissed without a word?

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I use marijuana medically or recreationally. It does not mean that I am some sort of anti-American postmodernist. It doesn't mean I am heartless or soulless. It doesn't mean I am out to get you. It doesn't mean that I don't want change. It just means that I do not agree with many parts of your opinion.

I found my life on factual reality. I just seem to look at more information to define reality than most. Nothing is a simple up/down/right/wrong/black/white. There are always other factors and data to consider. Saying "all of SS is bad" is just as inaccurate as saying "all of SS is good."

Sir, I showed you where SS is already running in the red. Did you not turn right around and blithely tell me that it was going to last through 2033 after I went to great pains to show you it wasn't? Or have you wished that away too?

I read this whole thread this morning.

I prefer thelibrarian's argumentation because he is more consistent in his use of reason than is sonofghandi.

And I have agreed -multiple times- that the system as it stands will not last forever. So which of your arguments have I failed to address?

I'm not certain what you think I have wished away. I feel that I have demonstrated that the system can go on unchanged for 20+ years before it starts to run dry (while still saying that it should be improved). I do not understand which argument(s) you are talking about. Please clarify.

The tax burden is disproportionately placed upon the middle class. The rich can take measures to protect at least some of their assets from taxation, the poor don't have taxable assets. So working people who play by the rules get it right in the neck. From what I can tell, middle class survival is all about debt management and credit rating.

Staremaster, I fully agree with the first half of your statement. The family of four trying to get by on fifty grand a year almost certainly will pay a larger percentage of their income in taxes than that same family of four on an income of a half-million a year.

I would strongly disagree that debt is anything positive for the middle class. Never having borrowed money for anything, or even having a credit card, has put me far ahead of the game, though it was very rough for a lot of years.

Interestingly, whining and sniveling about capital gains taxes being double taxation is a perennial refrain from the GOP. But somehow we never hear the same about SS taxes. In fact, SS taxes were raised back up about a year ago, constituting one of the biggest tax increases in history, yet the silence was deafening.

That's because we'll all get something back from our social security taxation.

Bill, if you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, I'm willing to sell you everything stolen from by the SS Administration for a nickel on the dollar, meaning you pay me a nickel for every dollar I've paid in, and I will have all of those fat retirement checks sent you way. Deal?

I'd actually sell out cheaper than that. I'm 51, and would be willing to make a deal with government today: Unsubscribe me from this scheme, meaning take no more money out of my paychecks, and keep the "pension".

Just to be perfectly clear, it was not a tax increase, just the end of a temporary tax break.