ferguson grand jury reaches its decision

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auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 12:02 am

Dillogic wrote:

And FYI all, Police and firefighters are receiving heavy gunfire in Ferguson. They've returned some fire (live rounds).

two wrongs do not a right make. but surely you can't be surprised at this reaction? in this world, when you take away legitimate redress of grievances you will generally get the other kind. this is indeed a hellworld we live in. this reaction does not help the black community at all, I wish people would, in the words of another police brutality victim, "to just get along." I wished they'd have waited until the civil suits and class action suits went through the courts. revenge is a dish best served cold on giant heaping plates of lettuce [u.s. currency] and I wanted to see ferguson's corrupt gov't and police force drained dry. now that is less likely to happen, I believe.

Dillogic
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25 Nov 2014, 12:18 am

auntblabby wrote:

two wrongs do not a right make. but surely you can't be surprised at this reaction?

They're not shooting at the police and firefighters in self-defense though, hence, they're criminals, and have no respect here.

I've yet to see someone show me any actual statistics pointing to widespread police abuse. From all I've read, the main abuse for the people living there comes from other people living there rather than the police.

Last edited by Dillogic on 25 Nov 2014, 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Meistersinger
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25 Nov 2014, 12:19 am

auntblabby wrote:

Dillogic wrote:

And FYI all, Police and firefighters are receiving heavy gunfire in Ferguson. They've returned some fire (live rounds).

But you have to remember, this is Missouri we're talking about here. Not only is it the Show Me State, most of the rural populous believe that might makes right.

auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 12:24 am

Dillogic wrote:

I've yet to see someone show me any actual statistics pointing to widespread police abuse. From all I've read, the main abuse the people living there comes from other people living there rather than the police.

that is because the white powers that be do not care to collect such statistics, they do not even think of the people they are supposed to be serving as humans but as "****ing animals!" [from watching a news report with audio of what the police were shouting at the crowds]. you really think the white ferguson power structure is going to do anything but say "statistics?! we don't need no stinkin' statistics!" no, you have to LIVE being working class/colored to get the "statistics." I've been called a "light-skinned n****r" before. [I'm not white]. that is why I am attuned to the suffering of ferguson's pofolk, if I had a bit less luck I could have ended up being stuck living there.

LoveNotHate
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25 Nov 2014, 12:27 am

auntblabby wrote:

Dillogic wrote:

So, you would have went for Wilson's gun because you didn't want to get off the street, got into a fight, backed off, turned around, and charged him? That's not even mentioning that you just robbed a store and were walking down the middle of the road. If yes, then you would have died. And yes, there's bad cops. People are bad. Not all people though (the majority).

I don't believe a word of that "officer"'s testimony. you can, obviously. and he IS a bad cop. a good cop would never be so outrageously disrespectful to anybody. that is unprofessional. a good cop would have been able to subdue a suspect who was unarmed, without murdering him. there is no evidence stating that the thug who robbed the store is the same person, that is hearsay. sure the surveillance video showed a big black fella but of course "they all look alike." :roll:

the fella lying face down in the street wasn't even wearing the same shoes as the thug in the store. the owner of the store denied brown was the same person. a case of mistaken identity that led to murder by cop.
of course, all that is beside the point, and moot. one does NOT shoot-to-kill an unarmed man. that is immoral, period. and it is murder. sanctioned by the state. judge jury and executioner now are they.

Brown's friend confirmed it was Brown robbing the store, and strong arming the clerk. It was Brown found with the stolen cigars. Forensics supports the officer's story as well as eye witnesses that Brown struggled for the officer's gun inside the police car when Brown was first shot.

And yes it is the same clothes. Go look again. A white shirt, and tan shorts.

Last edited by LoveNotHate on 25 Nov 2014, 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dillogic
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25 Nov 2014, 12:28 am

Just because there's no evidence doesn't mean you're to assume that they've hidden it. That's not how it works.

Remember, they did send the FBI in to investigate Brown's killing. They found nothing amiss.

Sometimes, it actually is what they say it is.

auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 12:31 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

Brown's friend confirmed it was Brown robbing the store, and strong arming the clerk. It was Brown found with the stolen cigars. Forensics supports the officer's story as well as eye witnesses that Brown struggled for the officer's gun inside the police car. And yes it is the same clothes. Go look again. A white shirt, and tan shorts.

even if it was John Dillinger himself, once that person is TOTALLY UNARMED the policeman does not have the MORAL right to be judge jury and executioner, we don't normally execute people for shoplifting!! ! if "officer" Wilson were half the cop he should have been he would have been able to subdue brown without murdering him. it is supposed to be "proportional force." what in blazes do we pay these people for?

Dillogic
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25 Nov 2014, 12:50 am

auntblabby wrote:

even if it was John Dillinger himself, once that person is TOTALLY UNARMED the policeman does not have the MORAL right to be judge jury and executioner, ... .

Dude, you keep on saying that, but you're allowed to defend yourself from an unarmed individual.

You are, the police are, we all are.

I have no idea where this whole "unarmed = peaceful angel that can't hurt anyone" logic came from.

auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 12:56 am

Dillogic wrote:

Dude, you keep on saying that, but you're allowed to defend yourself from an unarmed individual.You are, the police are, we all are.I have no idea where this whole "unarmed = peaceful angel that can't hurt anyone" logic came from.

I am not saying he was a choir boy. but I AM saying that wilson did NOT have to kill him. I am NOT saying nor have EVER said that the cop did not have the right to defend himself, but he could have done it without murdering the guy! what "officer" Wilson did was at the very least callous. you can stop trying to convince me that wilson was totally right. I am not buying that. why do you insist that self defense must=killing rather than subduing?

Dillogic
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25 Nov 2014, 1:03 am

Self-defense = stopping the threat.

I'm not going to backseat Rambo Wilson. The only point is if he followed the established law (which is fair for the majority of cases when you think about it). It seems that he did.

It's easy to say, why didn't he do an obsidian belt ninja karate kung-fu tazer chop to peacefully subdue Brown, but look at the ending.

What stopped Brown? What didn't stop Brown?

auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 1:09 am

Dillogic wrote:

Self-defense = stopping the threat. I'm not going to backseat Rambo Wilson. The only point is if he followed the established law (which is fair for the majority of cases when you think about it). It seems that he did. It's easy to say, why didn't he do an obsidian belt ninja karate kung-fu tazer chop to peacefully subdue Brown, but look at the ending. What stopped Brown? What didn't stop Brown?

it is my opinion that cops need to be trained like they are in other nations, namely in martial arts. stopping the threat does NOT require murder. it requires "stopping the threat" meaning stopping the perp from further physical actions, one can do this without killing them. my martial artist friend is well-versed in this and has trained police how to subdue suspects without killing them. I cannot accept that one must kill.

Syd
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25 Nov 2014, 1:22 am

Police ARE trained to subdue criminals without killing them.

The vast majority of criminals are taken in without any shots being fired.

They usually don't have to shoot to KILL because a WARNING SHOT or a shot in the foot or leg is enough to scare or incapacitate most sane human beings. You'd have to be a complete psychopath (or idiot) to fight an armed police officer while being UNARMED. That's why people are understandably suspicious about the events.

Last edited by Syd on 25 Nov 2014, 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Humanaut
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25 Nov 2014, 1:23 am

auntblabby wrote:

I cannot accept that one must kill.

Why?

auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 1:29 am

Humanaut wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

I cannot accept that one must kill.

Why?

what part of "thou shalt not murder" do you take issue with?

Dillogic
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25 Nov 2014, 1:30 am

auntblabby wrote:

Dillogic wrote:

Self-defense = stopping the threat. I'm not going to backseat Rambo Wilson. The only point is if he followed the established law (which is fair for the majority of cases when you think about it). It seems that he did. It's easy to say, why didn't he do an obsidian belt ninja karate kung-fu tazer chop to peacefully subdue Brown, but look at the ending. What stopped Brown? What didn't stop Brown?

Well, that's a procedural issue rather than any wrongdoing and maliciousness by the police. Lobby your local representative and council if you have an issue with that.

I don't know how a lone officer could have stopped Brown though without possibly inflicting a lethal injury, if Brown was intent on inflicting the same. Tazer might have worked, or it might not have. Shooting him in the hand and arms didn't stop him (leg wouldn't have been different). Wilson couldn't have taken Brown down by physical force.

You generally need two men to restrain one in the least, with more to easily overpower a large individual. Wilson had two to one odds, with the pistol potentially evening it up.

I bet if Wilson didn't have the pistol, he would have been severely beaten in the least, and no one would have cared at all. Ironic that.

Anyway, I think they put up the official findings and evidence, so anyone can read it and make up their minds.

BTW, killing doesn't equal murder.

Humanaut
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25 Nov 2014, 1:43 am

auntblabby wrote:

Humanaut wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

I cannot accept that one must kill.

Why?

what part of "thou shalt not murder" do you take issue with?

Killing someone in self-defense is justified under given circumstances according to most moral doctrines. "Thou shalt not kill" is no exception. It is not a categorical imperative, but a conditional one.

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