Charleston Shooter: Racist or Mentally Ill?

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blauSamstag
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23 Jun 2015, 7:23 pm

Those aren't mutually exclusive.

cyberdad
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24 Jun 2015, 1:16 am

naturalplastic wrote:

You can be both. Mentally ill, and racist.

Is Andre Brevik mentally ill? Or just an extreme ideologue?

Or do you have to be insane to be that extreme an ideologue (enough to shoot a hundred plus people).

racism is a form of mental illness...

Dillogic
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24 Jun 2015, 1:32 am

cyberdad wrote:

racism is a form of mental illness...

Depends on what you mean by "racism".

If one specific ethnic group does something more often/always, it'd be logical to judge the individuals of that ethnic group differently than an individual from another ethnic group with that one thing.

It's not fair, but you can tell it's an adaptive mechanism for survival based on pattern recognition. Brown snake = bad. Green snake = not bad.

Now, if you assume the person is still that one thing, even though they've proven to be different, then that probably crosses over into paranoia (fueled by racism), which is symptom of a mental disorder.

blue_bean
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24 Jun 2015, 10:06 am

His Hitler Youth haircut creeps me the f**k out.

beneficii
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24 Jun 2015, 10:12 am

cyberdad wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

racism is a form of mental illness...

Jee, thanks a lot. The mental health community really appreciates your input. So do people of color. Oh, white supremacy is not just still an endemic problem in society, it's only the mentally ill who practice it. [/sarc]

Seriously, I want you to put your money where your mouth is, buster, instead of just bloviating, as you have been want to do on this subject. I want evidence from reliable sources!

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beneficii
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24 Jun 2015, 10:52 am

Quote:

When white people go on shooting sprees, their actions are frequently attributed to mental illness and, thus, they’re not considered fully accountable for the harm they’ve inflicted. But in a historical psychoanalysis of 235 mass murders in the U.S., forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Stone called this a logical fallacy, and noted the media narrative tends to go something like this: Someone committed mass murder, therefore he is mentally ill, which caused him to commit mass murder.

This narrative -- which is not afforded to people of color -- feeds into the assumption that incidents like what happened at Emanuel AME Church are isolated tragedies executed by lone gunmen. Essentially, it excuses the system that allows racialized terrorism to keep happening.

Only around 22 percent of mass murderers suffer from clinical mental illnesses, while the rest are just people with narcissistic and paranoid personality traits like entitlement, self-righteousness and resentment. They strike back at people they both know and don’t know. At the time of the killings, they’re usually feeling a combination of murderous rage, utter hopelessness and suicidal despair -- but these things are not mental illness, Stone wrote this May in the journal Violence and Gender this past May.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/1 ... 16460.html

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CBRVA83
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24 Jun 2015, 11:59 am

I think Dylann Roof was racist, but I'm not sure if he's mentally ill. His manifesto was all about his racist views. People who are racist aren't mentally ill (their might be some who are, but I'm not sure), but I think anyone that shoots people in a church is crazy. I don't think we won't know if he was mentally ill until (if) he ever gets psychological evaluation.

Jono
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24 Jun 2015, 12:11 pm

CBRVA83 wrote:

The guy was wearing the South African apartheid-era flag and the Rhodesian flag. Seems racist to me.

AspieUtah
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24 Jun 2015, 12:13 pm

Jono wrote:

CBRVA83 wrote:

The guy was wearing the South African apartheid-era flag and the Rhodesian flag. Seems racist to me.

Yes, but, in the United States, it is his First Amendment speech rights that protect him wearing the flags if and when he chooses to do so. Racist? Sure. But, not because of something so incidental.

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beneficii
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24 Jun 2015, 12:42 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

Jono wrote:

CBRVA83 wrote:

The guy was wearing the South African apartheid-era flag and the Rhodesian flag. Seems racist to me.

Yes, but, in the United States, it is his First Amendment speech rights that protect him wearing the flags if and when he chooses to do so. Racist? Sure. But, not because of something so incidental.

What does the 1st Amendment have to do with determining whether someone was racist?

Also, there's more than just the flags.

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Kraichgauer
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24 Jun 2015, 9:59 pm

While I have no doubt that he probably fits into the medical definition of mental illness, I seriously doubt that he fits in with the legal definition. That is, crazy as he was, I doubt Roof didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

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Dillogic
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25 Jun 2015, 12:21 am

It's that old saying, "bad or mad".

Murder itself isn't the sign of mental illness. Nor is racism.

Each specific disorder (including autism), has specific reasons for why someone might commit a crime, and why punishment should be tailored with that in mind.

Lukecash12
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25 Jun 2015, 12:57 am

androbot01 wrote:

CBC

"We welcomed you Wednesday night in our Bible study with open arms," she said. "Every fibre in my body hurts and I'll never be the same. Tywanza Sanders was my son, but Tywanza was also my hero."

So, people are starting to call this domestic terrorism regardless of the cause. I hope this doesn't lead to persecution of the mentally Ill, which is what I would vote for in this poll.

I think he latched on to racism as a reaction to social dysfunction. Of course, I have no evidence whatsoever. But this degree of racism seems unlikely to me.

That degree of racism is all too real in this world. However, we have no basis for a conclusion at this point because we don't have all or even very many of the particulars of the case. There are little grounds for speculation at this point, because what we can see so far are accounts of very erratic behavior and him being previously institutionalized, as well as hate crime language and behavior. Gainsaying either way is merely a practice in speculation, an exercise in getting heated up over the issues when we don't even have the facts yet.

This is why I have always been appalled by the media presence in court rooms today, the rampant speculation and criticizing of other groups. What they are doing is exploiting something that is clearly a tragedy for the people actually close to such trials. It is an insult to them to sensationalize their suffering and it is an insult to our general public intelligence. The media has no place in a courtroom and clearly they are starting riots by fostering hatred in high profile trials lately before the facts are even in.

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cyberdad
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25 Jun 2015, 5:48 am

If extreme racism in the form practiced by White power groups and their supporters (estimated to be around 10% of the white population in any western country) is not disputed to be considered a mental illness by psychiatrists
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071634/

then we can use the spectrum/continuum model of DSM diagnosed mental disorders and assume that mild cases of racism equates to mild forms of mental illness

Guess that literally makes people proud to be white christian conservatives nutjobs

Dillogic
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25 Jun 2015, 8:29 pm

Note that this psychiatrist sees it's from delusional disorders, which means that it's irrational; a symptom rather than a specific illness.

You can have rational racism and murder just the same.

Germ phobias, for example, can be a part of a mental illness, but they can also be rational.

Rational fear of something isn't a mental illness, and when you start labeling it as such, well, there's your "thoughtillness".

GinFab
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26 Jun 2015, 7:06 am

or too much drugs in

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