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Chelsea Manning goes on hunger strike in prison

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cathylynn
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14 Sep 2016, 8:20 pm

i'm a cis hetero female and i don't endorse traditional gender roles. i'm comfortable in the female body i was born with. that's what makes me cis. i was a medical doctor, not a traditional female role. my husband is retired and does most of the housework while i plan to work outside the home for at least another decade.



ASS-P
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14 Sep 2016, 8:32 pm

...Let's see, you say " shave male/female prisoners' hair off " ? ALL body hair , including " down there " ?
If that is not what you mean , what you wrote sure suggests that .
Just all head hair then ? Permanently ? For the entire course of their sentence ?
With a " head-shaver " barber permanently occupied ?



dcj123 wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/chelsea-manning-hunger-strike-citing-lack-medical-treatment/story?id=41987150

Ok I want to be very clear, I don't mean this thread in any offense to the transgender community.

However,

Am I the only one that feels Manning is kind of stupid and borderline insane to what to be a woman in a male prison? What the absolute hell? This person is in prison, he or she deserves no gender, he or she doesn't deserve anything. If he or she wanted to be a women he or she should have not been criminal and then became transgender. I am all for it at that point but I think he or she would do better to keep any transgender urges to himself or herself right now. Prison is not a place to express yourself, I say we shave both male and female prisoners hair off. Females should be treated largely the same in my opinion exact maybe personal hygiene items which this individual doesn't need. I can't help but feel he is attention seeking, even if its your true self, I think he needs to realize he screwed up that freedom.

Also lol what a child, if I was the warden I say go ahead and die and see if I care. I mean seriously is Manning going to hold his or her breath next?


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friedmacguffins
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14 Sep 2016, 8:37 pm

cathylynn wrote:
i'm a cis hetero female and i don't endorse traditional gender roles. i'm comfortable in the female body i was born with. that's what makes me cis. i was a medical doctor, not a traditional female role. my husband is retired and does most of the housework while i plan to work outside the home for at least another decade.


I thought this was an interesting distinction, as many alleged conservatives consider gender to be fixed, in only the bedroom and bathroom, but not on the whole rest of the face of the Earth.

Between homosexuals, there is oftentimes a dominant male and submissive female-type of figure.

So, between the hetero and homo, who is more conservative, culturally.



friedmacguffins
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14 Sep 2016, 8:42 pm

ASS-P wrote:
...Let's see, you say " shave male/female prisoners' hair off " ? ALL body hair , including " down there " ?
If that is not what you mean , what you wrote sure suggests that .
Just all head hair then ? Permanently ? For the entire course of their sentence ?
With a " head-shaver " barber permanently occupied ?


And, fwiw, I am not seeing the moral equivalency between Manning's hair (whatever kind of hair) and my personal property.

It is not constructive for the authoritarians to say that he owes me a debt (as I am member of society) and that he is repaying me in hair and public showers.

How does caging rehabilitate a person, and where is the logic, except that of the Noble Lie.

For instance, a specious excuse to keep barbers employed.



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14 Sep 2016, 9:03 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
i'm a cis hetero female and i don't endorse traditional gender roles. i'm comfortable in the female body i was born with. that's what makes me cis. i was a medical doctor, not a traditional female role. my husband is retired and does most of the housework while i plan to work outside the home for at least another decade.


I thought this was an interesting distinction, as many alleged conservatives consider gender to be fixed, in only the bedroom and bathroom, but not on the whole rest of the face of the Earth.

Between homosexuals, there is oftentimes a dominant male and submissive female-type of figure.

So, between the hetero and homo, who is more conservative, culturally.


Not all gay males are either tops or bottoms, and I'm not talking about just in the bedroom either. There is a phenomenon called "versatility"--it's not all divided up between 'femmes' and 'bears/butches' like you seem to think. That is a stereotype. Lots of gay men look for equal power dynamics in their relationships.


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friedmacguffins
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14 Sep 2016, 9:12 pm

Doesn't conservatism favor polarization?



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14 Sep 2016, 9:17 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Doesn't conservatism favor polarization?



Is this an answer to what I said? Who/what are you responding to?


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14 Sep 2016, 9:25 pm

@cathylynn and wilburforce (as you seem more knowledgeable on this subject then I am) - I thought cisgender refers to a person who's gender identity matches their biological sex. Does it really mean also adhering to gender roles? :?


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friedmacguffins
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14 Sep 2016, 9:30 pm

cathylynn wrote:
i'm a cis hetero female and i don't endorse traditional gender roles. i'm comfortable in the female body i was born with. that's what makes me cis. i was a medical doctor, not a traditional female role. my husband is retired and does most of the housework while i plan to work outside the home for at least another decade.

friedmacguffins wrote:
I thought this was an interesting distinction, as many alleged conservatives consider gender to be fixed, in only the bedroom and bathroom, but not on the whole rest of the face of the Earth.

Between homosexuals, there is oftentimes a dominant male and submissive female-type of figure.

So, between the hetero and homo, who is more conservative, culturally.

wilburforce wrote:
Not all gay males are either tops or bottoms, and I'm not talking about just in the bedroom either. There is a phenomenon called "versatility"--it's not all divided up between 'femmes' and 'bears/butches' like you seem to think. That is a stereotype. Lots of gay men look for equal power dynamics in their relationships.

But, you have just used gay slang, for submissive and dominant people.

So, there is some concept of gender in their role play.

Do egalitarians have that dynamic, in private?



Last edited by friedmacguffins on 14 Sep 2016, 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cathylynn
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14 Sep 2016, 9:34 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
@cathylynn and wilburforce (as you seem more knowledgeable on this subject then I am) - I thought cisgender refers to a person who's gender identity matches their biological sex. Does it really mean also adhering to gender roles? :?

it's just the matching.



friedmacguffins
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14 Sep 2016, 9:38 pm

Clothes are an example of behavior, which is gender specific.

For instance, he is not called cis-male, if in crossdress. To wit, who wears the pants.

Mannerism and role play are incorporated into gender identity.

Even the denial of such is a label or scene. They call it gender queer.



cathylynn
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14 Sep 2016, 9:42 pm

many cross-dressers are cis. liking the look or feel of women's clothes doesn't mean the man is uncomfortable in his male body.



friedmacguffins
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14 Sep 2016, 9:49 pm

Can someone get reassignment surgery and still be cis, in spite of outward appearance?



wilburforce
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14 Sep 2016, 11:00 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
i'm a cis hetero female and i don't endorse traditional gender roles. i'm comfortable in the female body i was born with. that's what makes me cis. i was a medical doctor, not a traditional female role. my husband is retired and does most of the housework while i plan to work outside the home for at least another decade.

friedmacguffins wrote:
I thought this was an interesting distinction, as many alleged conservatives consider gender to be fixed, in only the bedroom and bathroom, but not on the whole rest of the face of the Earth.

Between homosexuals, there is oftentimes a dominant male and submissive female-type of figure.

So, between the hetero and homo, who is more conservative, culturally.

wilburforce wrote:
Not all gay males are either tops or bottoms, and I'm not talking about just in the bedroom either. There is a phenomenon called "versatility"--it's not all divided up between 'femmes' and 'bears/butches' like you seem to think. That is a stereotype. Lots of gay men look for equal power dynamics in their relationships.

But, you have just used gay slang, for submissive and dominant people.

So, there is some concept of gender in their role play.

Do egalitarians have that dynamic, in private?


I used quotation marks around those terms to illuminate the point that they are stereotypes that don't really exist as most people outside the gay community imagine--most gay guys are not either totally femme or totally butch in their personality or in the power dynamics of their relationships, it is a false-binary composed of stereotypes. That was my entire point. The concept of "gender roles" that you are assigning to gay relationships is a result of the stereotypes that people believe about gay men. My best friend is a gay man and he is neither demonstrably butch or demonstrably femme.


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friedmacguffins
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14 Sep 2016, 11:25 pm

As I ask Google, how many genders exist, Facebook reportedly offers 58 options, and 'apath' has 63.

My reductionist opinions are intended to avoid absurdity.



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14 Sep 2016, 11:49 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
As I ask Google, how many genders exist, Facebook reportedly offers 58 options, and 'apath' has 63.

My reductionist opinions are intended to avoid absurdity.


Is your first language not English? It's really hard to tell what you are saying and who you are responding to. You should try for a little more clarity in your expression (and also use the quote function or name posters at the beginning of your responses so we can tell who and what you are responding to with your posts), as it is you seem to be (perhaps unintentionally) cryptic and vague.


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(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)