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Obama makes Statment: Values at Stake

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EzraS
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04 Feb 2017, 3:11 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Obama is responsible for those Iraqis fleeing their homes? And golly, I thought it was ISIS all this time! :P


Isn't there a consensus that Obama (and Clinton as Secretary of State) brought about the formation of ISIS?

Kraichgauer wrote:
And if you want to believe those terrorists were innocent people, and hadn't brought death from the skies on themselves, then you go on right ahead.
No one wants innocent people to die, except for terrorists.


Would you say the same holds true for the recent raid in Yemen?


Obama and clinton created ISIS? You're of that opinion only if you listen to Trump, Breitbart, or Fox. It was Bush's ill advised military adventurism, while using 9/11 as a pretext, that had ultimately set the dominos into motion that led to ISIS.


I'm not sure where I picked up on that. It was before the election though. Not saying I believe it since I don't know anything about it, just remember in the back of mind them being blamed by whoever.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And the recent raid into Yemen? That was orangutan head, not Obama.


What I was asking is if you had had the same sentiments regarding the Yemen raid as you expressed regarding:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And if you want to believe those terrorists were innocent people, and hadn't brought death from the skies on themselves, then you go on right ahead. No one wants innocent people to die, except for terrorists.

Btw stop insulting orangutans!


Just because you had heard that Obama and Clinton had created ISIS doesn't mean it's true. Look at the source.
I don't want to see anyone innocent killed in our military actions, least of all children, which was the case in Yemen. But as for terrorists, they are hardly innocent.


I have no idea what the source was. Probably multiple sources over the course of time. Okay, I wasn't sure how the two situations compared.


Fair enough. Don't sweat it. 8)


I rarely do.



jrjones9933
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04 Feb 2017, 12:41 pm

It may be time to adjust our beloved illusions regarding American values by comparing statements to outcomes.


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JohnPowell
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05 Feb 2017, 1:23 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Hopefully Obama can be locked up. Trump's probably too classy to do it though.


Locked up? For what? Speaking his mind when he feels the jackhole in the White House is threatening fundamental American values?


Locked up for taking away fundamental 'American values'.


Obama hadn't shut the door on often desperate immigrants because of their religion and ethnicity. He never appointed a dangerous white nationalist to a high ranking position. He never threatened to take health coverage from people in need - in fact, Obama did the exact opposite. Just how did he threaten our fundamental American values?


See this is the trouble, you have no idea what you're talking about. Obama put a 6 month ban on Iraqis in 2011. Na, he just appointed a bunch of Zionists. Sure, the unaffordable healthcare act was great. By drone bombing people without trial. I guess blowing people up is OK, but banning people is evil :roll:


No, it just shows you're getting your news from Breitbart. Iraqis were never out-and-out banned by Obama. The numbers of Iraqis slowed, but there was never a time when Iraqis didn't come to America. And on top of that, Obama's plan to slow the flow was made clear at both ends, meaning that unlike today under Trump, refugees didn't just find out they wouldn't be allowed into America once they landed in America.
And bombing without trial? Do terrorists wait for a legitimate trial before killing anyone?


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... mas-2011-/

Not exactly the same, but still was done. I knew you'd find an excuse for the water walker though. The thing is, Obama cause most of these people to flee their homes, but I'm sure you'll deny that fact or say he did it because he was worried they had damp or something.
See again, you have no idea what you're talking about. How can you bomb a 'terrorist' who has done nothing wrong? He drone bombed civilians who were suspected of one day maybe thinking about possibly doing something against the US, killing the innocent civilians around them, when they were at a barbecue etc, but I guess in your eyes Obama was just dropping the bomb to try and help get the fire lit of the barbecue.


Obama is responsible for those Iraqis fleeing their homes? And golly, I thought it was ISIS all this time! :P
And if you want to believe those terrorists were innocent people, and hadn't brought death from the skies on themselves, then you go on right ahead.
No one wants innocent people to die, except for terrorists.


Yes, America is responsible. There was no ISIS before the US went in.
Get a grip.


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JohnPowell
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05 Feb 2017, 1:27 pm

:jester: n

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Obama is responsible for those Iraqis fleeing their homes? And golly, I thought it was ISIS all this time! :P


Isn't there a consensus that Obama (and Clinton as Secretary of State) brought about the formation of ISIS?

Kraichgauer wrote:
And if you want to believe those terrorists were innocent people, and hadn't brought death from the skies on themselves, then you go on right ahead.
No one wants innocent people to die, except for terrorists.


Would you say the same holds true for the recent raid in Yemen?


Obama and clinton created ISIS? You're of that opinion only if you listen to Trump, Breitbart, or Fox. It was Bush's ill advised military adventurism, while using 9/11 as a pretext, that had ultimately set the dominos into motion that led to ISIS.
And the recent raid into Yemen? That was orangutan head, not Obama.


Yes, the US gave them weapons and trucks as well as military support in Syria. That comes from the former head of the US intelligence agency. Just because your fake news channels don't mention it, doesn't mean it's nor true.


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jrjones9933
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05 Feb 2017, 1:29 pm

I would feel elated if we could stop supporting psychopathic leaders, and not have to argue about how to clean up the mess afterwards so often. My fairly unpopular opinion is that we have an obligation to our history to find some way to effectively clean up these messes, and spend more on reconstruction than on destruction.


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JohnPowell
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05 Feb 2017, 1:59 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
I would feel elated if we could stop supporting psychopathic leaders, and not have to argue about how to clean up the mess afterwards so often. My fairly unpopular opinion is that we have an obligation to our history to find some way to effectively clean up these messes, and spend more on reconstruction than on destruction.


That'll probably never happen. People are too tribal with their votes and views. You can see now that people who have been silent about the US's crimes for 8 years suddenly have started criticising them again.


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Kraichgauer
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05 Feb 2017, 8:10 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Hopefully Obama can be locked up. Trump's probably too classy to do it though.


Locked up? For what? Speaking his mind when he feels the jackhole in the White House is threatening fundamental American values?


Locked up for taking away fundamental 'American values'.


Obama hadn't shut the door on often desperate immigrants because of their religion and ethnicity. He never appointed a dangerous white nationalist to a high ranking position. He never threatened to take health coverage from people in need - in fact, Obama did the exact opposite. Just how did he threaten our fundamental American values?


See this is the trouble, you have no idea what you're talking about. Obama put a 6 month ban on Iraqis in 2011. Na, he just appointed a bunch of Zionists. Sure, the unaffordable healthcare act was great. By drone bombing people without trial. I guess blowing people up is OK, but banning people is evil :roll:


No, it just shows you're getting your news from Breitbart. Iraqis were never out-and-out banned by Obama. The numbers of Iraqis slowed, but there was never a time when Iraqis didn't come to America. And on top of that, Obama's plan to slow the flow was made clear at both ends, meaning that unlike today under Trump, refugees didn't just find out they wouldn't be allowed into America once they landed in America.
And bombing without trial? Do terrorists wait for a legitimate trial before killing anyone?


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... mas-2011-/

Not exactly the same, but still was done. I knew you'd find an excuse for the water walker though. The thing is, Obama cause most of these people to flee their homes, but I'm sure you'll deny that fact or say he did it because he was worried they had damp or something.
See again, you have no idea what you're talking about. How can you bomb a 'terrorist' who has done nothing wrong? He drone bombed civilians who were suspected of one day maybe thinking about possibly doing something against the US, killing the innocent civilians around them, when they were at a barbecue etc, but I guess in your eyes Obama was just dropping the bomb to try and help get the fire lit of the barbecue.


Obama is responsible for those Iraqis fleeing their homes? And golly, I thought it was ISIS all this time! :P
And if you want to believe those terrorists were innocent people, and hadn't brought death from the skies on themselves, then you go on right ahead.
No one wants innocent people to die, except for terrorists.


Yes, America is responsible. There was no ISIS before the US went in.
Get a grip.


I never once said ISIS wasn't America's creation. I said it's wrong to put the blame on Obama for starting the whole mess there, as it was George W. Bush who had destabilized the region with his military adventurism. Obama had inherited a bad situation from a cretin, and it's not about to get any better.


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jrjones9933
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05 Feb 2017, 8:35 pm

Although, to be fair, we have to put blame on the Bush family for several generations back, and Bill Clinton, and Reagan, and probably Wilson just for starters.


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Kraichgauer
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05 Feb 2017, 10:36 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Although, to be fair, we have to put blame on the Bush family for several generations back, and Bill Clinton, and Reagan, and probably Wilson just for starters.


True.


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JohnPowell
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06 Feb 2017, 3:30 pm

Obama promised to end the interventions and pull out of the Middle East. Instead he just escalated the wars and started his own. Bombing Pakistan after only a few days in office. Obama also gave support to ISIS to fight Assad.


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Kraichgauer
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06 Feb 2017, 11:38 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Obama promised to end the interventions and pull out of the Middle East. Instead he just escalated the wars and started his own. Bombing Pakistan after only a few days in office. Obama also gave support to ISIS to fight Assad.


Pulling out of the Middle east has proven to be much harder than Obama had thought it would be. But it seems the same bug that had infected Bush also got him, too, when he thought he could change things in Libya, and intervening against the Syrian dictator, Assad. But it was Bush who had gotten the boulder rolling out of control down hill.


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JohnPowell
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08 Feb 2017, 2:00 pm

They were both just puppets of the military industrial complex. Bush actually seemed to believe in what he was doing, where as Obama knew he was doing wrong, but was just too spineless to even try stopping it. Trump actually wants to do what he thinks is best for the country, hence why he's so hated. 9 out of the leading 10 arms companies endorsed Hillary Clinton.
And no, the ball had begun rolling under Clinton who had been bombing Iraq. Also, Obama started more than that. It's not about stopping dictators, hence why the US has always supported some of the worst and destroyed democratically elected leaders and installing puppet dictators.


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Kraichgauer
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08 Feb 2017, 5:37 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
They were both just puppets of the military industrial complex. Bush actually seemed to believe in what he was doing, where as Obama knew he was doing wrong, but was just too spineless to even try stopping it. Trump actually wants to do what he thinks is best for the country, hence why he's so hated. 9 out of the leading 10 arms companies endorsed Hillary Clinton.
And no, the ball had begun rolling under Clinton who had been bombing Iraq. Also, Obama started more than that. It's not about stopping dictators, hence why the US has always supported some of the worst and destroyed democratically elected leaders and installing puppet dictators.


What will you do when Trump ends up taking us into needless, endless wars?


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08 Feb 2017, 6:03 pm

Earlier today Trump had a briefing. 15-20 minutes into it.. a new tweet by him gets posted. He was whining about his daughter's business and how Nordstrom is bad because they wont sell her clothing line anymore. :roll:

So the briefing was really short (doubtful) or Trump wasn't paying attention or someone else is using Trump's Twitter account.

The president needs to grow the hell up and have VALUES for all of America- not do this petty crap. His daughter's clothing (most, probably all of it isn't even made in USA!) shouldn't be a focus anymore.

The clothing was selling badly- so Nordstrom dropped it. It's that simple. Mr Trump needs to stop being a whiny little brat already. This conflict of interest crap needs to stop. Every company Trump whines about being "bad" is getting hurt by his lies and half-truths. It's sickening.

Congress needs to start the impeachment process now, before more damage is done.



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08 Feb 2017, 6:11 pm

Earthbound wrote:
Earlier today Trump had a briefing. 15-20 minutes into it.. a new tweet by him gets posted. He was whining about his daughter's business and how Nordstrom is bad because they wont sell her clothing line anymore. :roll:

So the briefing was really short (doubtful) or Trump wasn't paying attention or someone else is using Trump's Twitter account.


Sounds like it would make a pretty good SNL skit ... :)

EDITED: I know who was using Trump's Twitter account ... it was Russian Hackers ! !! :lol:



Last edited by the_phoenix on 08 Feb 2017, 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jacoby
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08 Feb 2017, 6:42 pm

Earthbound wrote:
Earlier today Trump had a briefing. 15-20 minutes into it.. a new tweet by him gets posted. He was whining about his daughter's business and how Nordstrom is bad because they wont sell her clothing line anymore. :roll:

So the briefing was really short (doubtful) or Trump wasn't paying attention or someone else is using Trump's Twitter account.

The president needs to grow the hell up and have VALUES for all of America- not do this petty crap. His daughter's clothing (most, probably all of it isn't even made in USA!) shouldn't be a focus anymore.

The clothing was selling badly- so Nordstrom dropped it. It's that simple. Mr Trump needs to stop being a whiny little brat already. This conflict of interest crap needs to stop. Every company Trump whines about being "bad" is getting hurt by his lies and half-truths. It's sickening.

Congress needs to start the impeachment process now, before more damage is done.


Tweeting isn't an impeachable offense, repeating how unpresidential Trump isn't a narrative that works anymore since whatever he does now is presidential because he is the president! :D