Russian Influence on U.S.

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Amaltheia
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14 Feb 2017, 8:20 am

androbot01 wrote:

Why is befriending Russia the right thing?

Who said anything about befriending? Just stop attacking them. Drop the sanctions. Stop demonizing them. Draw the NATO troops back from their border. Stop blaming them for Hillary losing. Just stop.

Not attacking others is the right thing. Why are you having such difficulty grasping this?

Jacoby
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14 Feb 2017, 8:22 am

Spooks at the CIA and Pentagon wanted Flynn out, simple as that. Perfect example of the Military-Industrial Complex and deep state. What is controversial at all about the Flynn talking to his Russian counterpart while in the transitory period? Nonsense about blackmail makes absolutely zero sense, a lack of democratic control of our country's foreign policy is the problem.

You want conflict with Russia, be it protracted or direct because you have been indoctrinated your whole life to hate them but your fear is misplaced and we have far more to fear by people within our own government that those abroad. I do not support McCarthyite witch hunts nor do I accept the moral pedestal these literal terrorist supporters put themselves on, why is Russia such an insidious threat to the US when you compare them to other countries we have relations with and even call allies?

androbot01
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14 Feb 2017, 8:27 am

EzraS wrote:

...and Russia would be a very powerful ally against actual enemies of the US.

Why? Because they have nuclear weapons? I'm not sure why you think they would be a useful ally to the U.S.

Amaltheia wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

Why is befriending Russia the right thing?

Who said anything about befriending? Just stop attacking them. Drop the sanctions. Stop demonizing them. Draw the NATO troops back from their border. Stop blaming them for Hillary losing. Just stop.

How can I stop what I was not doing?

Amaltheia wrote:

Why are you having such difficulty grasping this?

Stop embarrassing yourself with these addendum ad hominems.

Jacoby wrote:

You want conflict with Russia, be it protracted or direct because you have been indoctrinated your whole life to hate them but your fear is misplaced and we have far more to fear by people within our own government that those abroad.

Who are you talking to? If it's me, I don't hate Russia or Russians.

Amaltheia
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14 Feb 2017, 8:51 am

EzraS wrote:

For me it's just been a matter of entering someone's name into a search engine, followed by, is a Nazi, and then seeing all the article titles making the accusation. With Sanders it was "Nazi like". I guess they didn't want to go as far as directly accusing a Jew of being a Nazi.

All I can do is quote an old post to the Do you feel Trump is our modern Hitler? thread:

Quote:

I thought former Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the modern Hitler.

No, wait, it's director Michael Bay.

Or, maybe Entertainment Software Association president Doug Lowenstein.

Oh, hold on, it's actually Osama bin Laden.

Or, perhaps you just mean politicians. Well then there's President George W. Bush.

Or President Jimmy Carter.

Then there's President Bill Clinton.

And President Barack Obama.

Or President Richard Nixon.

Stepping down a bit, we have Vice President Dick Cheney.

And Vice President Al Gore.

Then there was Presidential nominee John McCain.

Of course, there's those that say Senator Ted Kennedy is worse than Hitler.

Overseas, we have former Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

And who can forget former Iraqi Dictator Saddam Hussein.

Current Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

Finally, there's an entire website devoted to Cats That Look Like Hitler, featuring Leonardo. He's got my vote as the modern Hitler.

EzraS wrote:

So what's your take on bogeyman Steve Bannon?

Well, he's authoritarian, nationalist, and apparently believes in the whole "War of Civilizations" thing. More than anything he reminds me of conservative religious Fascists like Franco in Spain or Salazar in Portugal. Not as modernist as the Italian Fascists. Certainly not as radical or totalitarian as the German Nazis.

Amaltheia
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14 Feb 2017, 8:57 am

androbot01 wrote:

How can I stop what I was not doing?

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. I was clearly talking about the actions of officials and pundits in the United States.

androbot01 wrote:

Stop embarrassing yourself with these addendum ad hominems.

You're the one who apparently can't tell the difference between right and wrong. I'm just curious why that is.

androbot01
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14 Feb 2017, 9:05 am

Amaltheia wrote:

I was clearly talking about the actions of officials and pundits in the United States.

Okay, didn't realize you were at the pulpit.

Amaltheia wrote:

You're the one who apparently can't tell the difference between right and wrong. I'm just curious why that is.

You're funny.

Amaltheia
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14 Feb 2017, 9:08 am

androbot01 wrote:

You're funny.

Thank you.
You're most kind for saying so.

Earthbound
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14 Feb 2017, 10:03 am

Flynn likely wont be the last person to lose his job due to Russia. People that ignore the facts are just ignorant to the truth really.

I think it's clear by now Russia probably hacked Republicans and have dirt on them, so they can easily blackmail them. Plus who is to say Trump or one of his friends isn't sharing classified briefings with them? Let's also not forget- many of Trump's friends (and likely Trump himself) do business with Russia.. so in their best interest- they will have sanctions dropped, so they can get richer. Russia legalized spouse beating recently- yet I don't think ANYONE in the White House mentioned it. Sorry but no form of abuse towards a spouse is acceptable ever! Russia and USA can be allies but we shouldn't be looking the other way when they legalize that kind of horrid stuff. Also Russia needs to stop trying to grab land near them- that behavior shouldn't be ignored either.

EzraS
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14 Feb 2017, 11:24 am

androbot01 wrote:

EzraS wrote:

...and Russia would be a very powerful ally against actual enemies of the US.

Why? Because they have nuclear weapons? I'm not sure why you think they would be a useful ally to the U.S.

Because they are a large and highly developed nation like the US, UK and the rest of Western Europe and Japan. Because they want to work with the US. Because they are concerned about the same threats to world peace the US is concerned about. But I can tell you are playing your purposely obtuse passive aggressive cat and mouse game again, as I have experienced several times before. So I am not going to let you trick me into answering the same question over and over again.

Tollorin
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14 Feb 2017, 11:32 am

Amaltheia wrote:

EzraS wrote:

So what earned Obama, Clinton and even Sanders the designation of Nazi?

I know you probably meant this as a rhetorical question, but I figure I'll try to answer it anyway.

I don't know about Sanders, but Obama and Clinton are Identitarians, and as such:

I. They believe in identity politics, which defines people in terms of a biologically based "identity". They say these "identities" are culturally constructed, but as can be seen in the case of Rachel Dolezal, that's a load of crap because biology obviously trumps culture.

The historical Nazis used colored triangles to represent an individual "identity", with those having more than a single identity represented by intersecting triangles. While the modern Nazis haven't yet started requiring everyone to wear an equivalent of the colored triangles to make it easy to see what "identities" they are, they've laid the foundations, to it would only be a formality to assign shapes and colors to the "identities".

II. They reject reason, preferring to emphasis emotion, considering that more authentic.
The historical Nazis also rejected reason, preferring more mystical sources of knowledge, such as blood and instinct.

III. They blame all the ills of the world on a biologically defined group, who they dismiss as "deplorables".
Do I really need to spell out the parallel with the historical Nazis?

IV. They reject debate and freedom of speech as a way to resolve political issues, preferring to use street violence to shut down those they disagree with. The historical Nazis had the brownshirts, the modern ones have the black bloc. Both groups are, of course, separate from the main body, so their actions can be publicly frowned up, without actually being condemned — "I'm usually opposed to street violence, but the target was [insert disfavored group], so in this case..."

There are also a number of significant differences. The historical Nazis spoke German. And they had snazzy uniforms designed by Hugo Boss. So, if you look at it that way, they're nothing like the historical Nazis at all.

I don't see anything that could make me believe that Obama and Clinton see identity as other than cultural. As for using things such as the yellow triangles for representing identity, this is something that never appeared in the discourses or politics of Obama and Clinton, though it certainly appeared on the side of Trump with the idea of a muslim database.

The democrats don't reject reason either, this is the work of republicans rejecting proofs about things such as evolutions, the Big Bang, climate changes, crime rates and so on.

When Clinton talked about "deplorable" she talked about a cultural group and she didn't seem to consider doing any discrimination against them.

And no, they don't reject freedom of speech, and there is nothing linking them with alleged streets violences which is happening from the other side too. Trump did made treats toward free speech however.

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EzraS
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14 Feb 2017, 11:37 am

Earthbound wrote:

Also Russia needs to stop trying to grab land near them- that behavior shouldn't be ignored either.

Seriously, who do they think they are, the United Grabbed States of America?

Earthbound
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14 Feb 2017, 12:18 pm

EzraS wrote:

Earthbound wrote:

Also Russia needs to stop trying to grab land near them- that behavior shouldn't be ignored either.

Seriously, who do they think they are, the United Grabbed States of America?

Are you trying to troll or what?

Yes several areas in the world had natives on it before others came to and took it by force in most cases. That was ages ago- it doesn't make things justified now.. period.

Go look up the facts, rather than troll or whatever you think you were doing...

EzraS
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14 Feb 2017, 12:36 pm

Earthbound wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Earthbound wrote:

Also Russia needs to stop trying to grab land near them- that behavior shouldn't be ignored either.

Seriously, who do they think they are, the United Grabbed States of America?

Lighten up.

Earthbound
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14 Feb 2017, 3:26 pm

No, how about not turning things into jokes? This is a serious matter, even if you don't want to think so.

A joke to "lighten the mood" or whatever isn't the answer, period.

Kraichgauer
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14 Feb 2017, 3:29 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

How about Trump's Nazi-in-the-shadows, Steve Bannon? He was the sinister character who had snuck into the Muslim ban the attempt to also keep out permanent residents, and those with green cards. Methinks there is something racial about this.

I don't know too much about him outside of yours and cyberdad's obsession with him, which seems equal to you guys being obsessed with writing the word "Nazi". Which has little meaning to me considering the vast number of Democrats and Republicans I've seen being called a Nazi.

It seems to me that leftists, especially SJW's, are the ones who focus the most on race, religion and gender. I figure that's why it's okay to be phobic of Russia since they're white of Christian origin and the main focus is on their white male president. I don't see any critical thinking in much of any of this, just a mindset.

But anyways, I'll look into Bannon. Looking for hard cold facts, while disregarding hearsay, rumors, innuendo, accusations and the like.

The undeniable facts about him are that he, as the former editor of Breitbart, had allowed that site to be used by Alt Right white nationalists, had had an all black crime section in Breitbart, and has spoken about limiting non-white immigration into the country, just to name a few things that's earned him the designation of Nazi. Try looking at some unbiased - or God forbid - even liberal sources about Bannon, rather than just conservative ones.

Okay so Bannon as editor of Breitbart didn't deny the "alt-right" freedom of speech. So we're all for freedom of speech and freedom of the press, unless it's Breitbart and the "alt-right. They are to keep silent and anyone associated with them is a "Nazi" this that and the other ______phobe. Typical leftist control agenda.

So what earned Obama, Clinton and even Sanders the designation of Nazi? How can anyone not see how completely worthless the Nazi designation has become? It's like who isn't a Nazi?

Try looking up some unbiased sources? What else would I look up in making an objective decision based on fact? Of course I'll also want to hear a little bit of right spin and a little bit of left spin. My guess is that I'm not going to find anything particularly remarkable. Which would explain the desperate need to generate as much sensationalism as possible.

Breitbart is a private enterprise, and so was never bound to provide free speech to anyone they didn't want to, anymore than Huffington Post on the left does. The fact that Breitbart allowed people known for racism and out-and-out lunacy to use their publication as a soapbox shows how Bannon, as their editor, was and is, sympathetic to those ugly ideas. Sure, you can say Bannon simply wanted to just give equal time to people who say blacks are guilty of most crimes, that the Holocaust never happened, and that non-white Americans should be deported, but why would any decent person want to?

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beneficii
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14 Feb 2017, 4:28 pm

We would all do well to keep this in mind:

Quote:

Take, for example, the recent US commando raid in Yemen conducted by the Trump Administration on January 29th. Thirty civilians were reported killed, including the daughter of US citizen Anwar Al-Awlaki. The incident signals Trump's continued commitment to US empire despite his campaign rhetoric. However, it was Democratic Party leadership under Obama that vastly increased drone warfare in the region. Obama assassinated Anwar Al-Awkaki by drone strike in 2011 and followed up by murdering his sixteen year-old son in the span of a few weeks. Overall, the Obama Administration's drone program killed thousands of people in Pakistan, Yemen, and Afghanistan to name a few, many of them civilians. Trump's seamless transition as the trigger for drone warfare is a sharp indication that war, as with all symptoms of US imperialism, does not cease with a mere change of face or party in the White House.

http://www.blackagendareport.com/undres ... irst_weeks

People on the left should not necessarily take the enemy of their enemy as their friend, and people on the right should not see Mr. Trump as the man to dismantle the Empire.

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