Kushner and Comey

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androbot01
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29 May 2017, 9:31 am

jrjones9933 wrote:

I've decided that those two simply want to make discussion of the news about DJT and crew as difficult as possible.

I wouldn't mind if they were actually contributing ideas about the issues, but their school yard propaganda efforts are just a distraction.

Aristophanes
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29 May 2017, 10:03 am

EzraS wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

And Ezra, ... hysterical, paranoid, deranged ... I get it. You don't think there's anything to the "Russian Connection," but enough with the ad hominems already.

Ad hominem is Latin for "to the person". My comments regarding mass hysteria et al don't pertain to any specific individual.

And I don't think there isn't anything to the "Russia Connection", I know there isn't anything to the Russia Connection". If there was anything to it, I would be reading about it, instead of the usual daily tabloid tripe that's fodder for the desperate, the hysterical and the obsessed.

Again, YET. I'll reiterate, government investigations take years. There was nothing to Watergate for almost 2 years, nothing to the Teapot Dome scandal for 4 years, and even nothing to Whitewater for 6 years. We're at 6 months, the investigation is merely in the opening phase, time will tell.

jrjones9933
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29 May 2017, 11:04 am

Logically, all includes each.

_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade

EzraS
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29 May 2017, 11:17 am

androbot01 wrote:

Ezra, ad hominem refers to attacking the holder of the ideas, rather than the ideas themselves. Your descriptions of those holding an opposing view to yourself as desperate, hysterical and obsessed are akin to saying "Your mother is fat." It's the most base and desperate of arguments and your use of it, repeatedly, makes me wonder if you have anything else to contribute.

That's not how it works. Likewise your attempt at manipulation isn't working.

androbot01
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29 May 2017, 11:31 am

MerriamWebster

Quote:

Definition of ad hominem

1: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect, an ad hominem argument

2: marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made made, an ad hominem personal attack on his rival

What do you not understand?

EzraS
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29 May 2017, 11:37 am

Aristophanes wrote:

EzraS wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

And Ezra, ... hysterical, paranoid, deranged ... I get it. You don't think there's anything to the "Russian Connection," but enough with the ad hominems already.

In the meantime the fact is that there is nothing. This is a situation where many have already rendered a verdict based on nothing many many times already, rather than take a wait and see approach.

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29 May 2017, 11:47 am

androbot01 wrote:

MerriamWebster

Quote:

What do you not understand?

I understand that it doesn't apply the way you are trying to make it to above or below.

1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

2. relating to or associated with a particular person.

Wrong Planet Rules: 2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.

Last edited by EzraS on 29 May 2017, 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

androbot01
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29 May 2017, 12:04 pm

EzraS wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

MerriamWebster

Quote:

What do you not understand?

I understand that it doesn't apply the way you want it to above or below.

1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

2. relating to or associated with a particular person.

Wrong Planet Rules: 2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.

jrjones9933 wrote:

Logically, all includes each.

So are you here, Ezra, to try to get away with insulting people? 'Cause that's what it sounds like to me.

EzraS
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29 May 2017, 12:10 pm

androbot01 wrote:

EzraS wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

MerriamWebster

Quote:

What do you not understand?

jrjones9933 wrote:

Logically, all includes each.

That statement made by jrjones9933 doesn't circumvent the actual definition or the rules.

androbot01 wrote:

So are you here, Ezra, to try to get away with insulting people?'Cause that's what it sounds like to me.

That's what you are attempting to make it sound like. What you're doing is called twisting. Nice try, but you failed.

androbot01
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29 May 2017, 12:24 pm

EzraS wrote:

That statement made by jrjones9933 doesn't circumvent the actual definition or the rules.

I'm not particularly bothered about WP rules. I'm trying to tell you that making disparaging remarks about those who hold opposing views to your own is lazy thinking. It allows one to write off challenging views without actually thinking about them. The longer one does it, the more unable one becomes to actually think about things.

So, Aristophanes mentioned that it takes a long time to follow up on information to determine if evidence exists. You seem to be conflating the passage of time with the establishment of truth. In fact, you seem to be suggesting that no evidence exists and I remain curious as to why.

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29 May 2017, 12:29 pm

EzraS wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

EzraS wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

And Ezra, ... hysterical, paranoid, deranged ... I get it. You don't think there's anything to the "Russian Connection," but enough with the ad hominems already.

In the meantime the fact is that there is nothing. This is a situation where many have already rendered a verdict based on nothing many many times already, rather than take a wait and see approach.

Such is the nature of public discourse. Mention Hillary Clinton and half the nation thinks guilty, even without an investigation of any kind, same goes for George W. Bush. The public makes it's own opinion outside the realm of evidence and facts, hence the reason the founders made the judiciary their own separate branch, partially shielded from politics. As for all the people you're referring to, they aren't the decision makers in this process, none of us here are, this process is in the hands of congress and congress alone-- theirs is the only opinion you should take seriously in this matter. Everyone has an agenda in a case like this, for some their agenda is the truth, for others it's to validate their preconceived notions, but at the end of the day the only agenda that matters is that of the house.

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29 May 2017, 12:33 pm

There's no point creating a new thread for every sensationalist piece of fake news to cross over the wire, the information has not changed and there is still no evidence of any wrong doing or 'collusion.' It's not derailing to bring the conversation back to this reality, there is simply nothing to discuss until actual evidence is presented besides Obama era criminal seditionists going to media with leaks and just straight up lies.

For this Russian narrative to have any legs whatsoever instead of just depending on rampant anti-Russian xenophobia there actually needs to be crime taking place not just HEY LOOK THIS GUY IS TALKING TO RUSSIA, GET HIM!! !! These people want to start another Cold War which they cynically can use to score political points. Nothing would be greater for world peace than a harmonization of relations between the US and Russia, Russia is the only country that can help us stand up against the rising tide of a Chinese superpower and having them on the other side would be disastrous.

Aristophanes
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29 May 2017, 12:37 pm

Jacoby wrote:

There's no point creating a new thread for every sensationalist piece of fake news to cross over the wire, the information has not changed and there is still no evidence of any wrong doing or 'collusion.' It's not derailing to bring the conversation back to this reality, there is simply nothing to discuss until actual evidence is presented besides Obama era criminal seditionists going to media with leaks and just straight up lies.

For this Russian narrative to have any legs whatsoever instead of just depending on rampant anti-Russian xenophobia there actually needs to be crime taking place not just HEY LOOK THIS GUY IS TALKING TO RUSSIA, GET HIM!! ! ! These people want to start another Cold War which they cynically can use to score political points. Nothing would be greater for world peace than a harmonization of relations between the US and Russia, Russia is the only country that can help us stand up against the rising tide of a Chinese superpower and having them on the other side would be disastrous.

Not true, our European allies can do as much, as could increased alliance with places such as Japan and India. It's not a Russia or nothing game as you've framed it, not even close.

EzraS
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29 May 2017, 12:41 pm

androbot01 wrote:

EzraS wrote:

That statement made by jrjones9933 doesn't circumvent the actual definition or the rules.

I'm not particularly bothered about WP rules.

The WP rules I posted are also the official rules of debating to which ad hominem attacks apply and you misrepresented.

androbot01 wrote:

I'm trying to tell you that making disparaging remarks about those who hold opposing views to your own is lazy thinking. It allows one to write off challenging views without actually thinking about them. The longer one does it, the more unable one becomes to actually think about things.

Bunkum and balderdash.

Jacoby
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29 May 2017, 1:23 pm

Aristophanes wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

There's no point creating a new thread for every sensationalist piece of fake news to cross over the wire, the information has not changed and there is still no evidence of any wrong doing or 'collusion.' It's not derailing to bring the conversation back to this reality, there is simply nothing to discuss until actual evidence is presented besides Obama era criminal seditionists going to media with leaks and just straight up lies.

For this Russian narrative to have any legs whatsoever instead of just depending on rampant anti-Russian xenophobia there actually needs to be crime taking place not just HEY LOOK THIS GUY IS TALKING TO RUSSIA, GET HIM!! ! ! These people want to start another Cold War which they cynically can use to score political points. Nothing would be greater for world peace than a harmonization of relations between the US and Russia, Russia is the only country that can help us stand up against the rising tide of a Chinese superpower and having them on the other side would be disastrous.

Not true, our European allies can do as much, as could increased alliance with places such as Japan and India. It's not a Russia or nothing game as you've framed it, not even close.

They're not going anywhere, our European 'allies' aren't really good allies but rather a freeloading protectorate that the US uses to maintain influence in the region. Maybe if a few of these countries would bother to spend 2% of their GDP on defense this alliance would seem a lot more valuable but these countries are not going to do that and this idea of mutual defense with all these minor countries is laughable. No, I do not care if Russia invaded Estonia tomorrow(hold your paranoid horses) because they're not worth starting WWIII. That's the entire problem with NATO, it's just a US protectorate with no loyalty going the other way. It's a joke to think they'd be any help with the Chinese, NATO should help the US as much as it helps the other member countries so if they don't pay their fair share then they shouldn't be given the same level commitment. Japan and India would just as soon ally with Russia, seriously it's only our problem. If there can be peace with Russia then there is hope for world peace, otherwise we will be locked in conflict for the next century again.

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29 May 2017, 1:25 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

There's no point creating a new thread for every sensationalist piece of fake news to cross over the wire, the information has not changed and there is still no evidence of any wrong doing or 'collusion.' It's not derailing to bring the conversation back to this reality, there is simply nothing to discuss until actual evidence is presented besides Obama era criminal seditionists going to media with leaks and just straight up lies.

For this Russian narrative to have any legs whatsoever instead of just depending on rampant anti-Russian xenophobia there actually needs to be crime taking place not just HEY LOOK THIS GUY IS TALKING TO RUSSIA, GET HIM!! ! ! These people want to start another Cold War which they cynically can use to score political points. Nothing would be greater for world peace than a harmonization of relations between the US and Russia, Russia is the only country that can help us stand up against the rising tide of a Chinese superpower and having them on the other side would be disastrous.

Not true, our European allies can do as much, as could increased alliance with places such as Japan and India. It's not a Russia or nothing game as you've framed it, not even close.

Here's to you comrade!

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