Baltimore: ALL Confederate Statues Have Now Been Removed
Kraichgauer
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Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
17 Aug 2017, 11:11 pm
Misslizard wrote:
/\ yes we were.Not that it was a good thing.
Was this child a traitor?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Owen_Dodd
Was this child a traitor?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Owen_Dodd
What a competent spy master would have done was to either get him to turn in order to report on the enemy, or to spread disinformation.
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17 Aug 2017, 11:22 pm
Aristophanes wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
/\ yes we were.Not that it was a good thing.
Was this child a traitor?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Owen_Dodd
Was this child a traitor?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Owen_Dodd
Never heard of him, and nothing in the article mentioned him taking arms up against the United States, he was merely a civilian casualty which are actually the majority of casualties in most armed conflicts.
He was tried and hung like a traitor.Off course you haven't heard of him,not like the Union (or any army)would brag about hanging a child.Both sides did their fair share of atrocities,just like any war.
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17 Aug 2017, 11:27 pm
Raptor wrote:
rick sanchez wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Maybe a statue of Robert E.Lee doesn't belong in a public park,but if someone wants one in their front yard,then it's their right,no matter how odious some find it.Of course the owner of the statue is going to pay hell for it every Halloween.
I don't see why it wouldn't belong in a public park. Statues if Lee and other Confederate generals have been around in public places for over 100 years. Are all statues to be banned from public parks? What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. People need to toughen up a little and stop letting others tell them how to feel.
That is a f*****g weak argument.
Haven't seen you make one yet. Being obnoxious, trolling, and name calling isn't making an argument.
Quote:
If you are going to use that the stop using your computer.
Gonna make me stop?
Another weak one, "your arguments are weak, so mine dont have to be."
Your opinion means very little to me, but I am offended by stupidity.
_________________
Peace among worlds!
17 Aug 2017, 11:32 pm
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
If you are going to use that the stop using your computer.
Gonna make me stop?
Nope, I was just hoping that if you were going to use an argument you would have the strength of character to live what you say.
Stupidity should have conequences.
_________________
Peace among worlds!
18 Aug 2017, 7:16 am
Misslizard wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
/\ yes we were.Not that it was a good thing.
Was this child a traitor?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Owen_Dodd
Was this child a traitor?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Owen_Dodd
Never heard of him, and nothing in the article mentioned him taking arms up against the United States, he was merely a civilian casualty which are actually the majority of casualties in most armed conflicts.
He was tried and hung like a traitor.Off course you haven't heard of him,not like the Union (or any army)would brag about hanging a child.Both sides did their fair share of atrocities,just like any war.
I never said they didn't, it's war, atrocities happen as do mistakes. None of that changes the fact that confederates took up arms against their democratically elected government which is the very definition of traitor. Sorry but there's no excuses or equivocations that wash that repugnant smell away. I will say the same thing about Dodd that I do about Tecumseh Sherman: had the south worked in the democratic process set up by our forefathers none of those events would have happened.
18 Aug 2017, 8:42 am
rick sanchez wrote:
Raptor wrote:
rick sanchez wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Maybe a statue of Robert E.Lee doesn't belong in a public park,but if someone wants one in their front yard,then it's their right,no matter how odious some find it.Of course the owner of the statue is going to pay hell for it every Halloween.
I don't see why it wouldn't belong in a public park. Statues if Lee and other Confederate generals have been around in public places for over 100 years. Are all statues to be banned from public parks? What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. People need to toughen up a little and stop letting others tell them how to feel.
That is a f*****g weak argument.
Haven't seen you make one yet. Being obnoxious, trolling, and name calling isn't making an argument.
Quote:
If you are going to use that the stop using your computer.
Gonna make me stop?
Another weak one, "your arguments are weak, so mine dont have to be."
Your opinion means very little to me, but I am offended by stupidity.
rick sanchez wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
If you are going to use that the stop using your computer.
Gonna make me stop?
Nope, I was just hoping that if you were going to use an argument you would have the strength of character to live what you say.
Stupidity should have conequences.
That's very interesting giving separate replies to the same quote. There's only one other persona I have ever seen do that. A 67 year old woman going by the name "Stinky Dog". Are you perhaps her son? If so, please tell her we all miss her.
Campin_Cat
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Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
18 Aug 2017, 10:06 am
Meistersinger wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
These actions smack way too much of ethnic cleansing..
Okay, just to be sure I got your meaning.....
Do you mean they shouldn't be trying to erase the Confederate "ethnicity", from everywhere?
The point is that the Confederacy was and is a part of American history, whether we like it or not. To destroy that ignoble part of our history would, like Disraeli said, we are doomed to repeating same mistakes (as if we aren't doing so now.)
Okay----thanks, for responding.....
Unfortunately, I think you're right, that we ARE already repeating it----or, maybe it's not a repetition, per se, because that seems to indicate that something was stopped, at-one-point, and then started again (meaning, racial injustice), and this seems, sort-of, like one big, lonnnnng episode, instead; maybe one could argue that it's, like, a reversal, now, though, or something----I dunno.....
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Campin_Cat
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18 Aug 2017, 10:09 am
Aristophanes wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
There's acknowledging bad parts of one's heritage and then there's promoting them, confederate monuments (lower case, they were never an officially recognized country) falls into the later. No country in the history of the world has ever allowed the flag of sedition to fly in it's own country, nor monuments for the traitors partaking in said sedition...except for this one, and there's a reason for that: it prevents closure and the society from moving forward, and here we are 150 years later...
What if it's merely because no one has an Amendment, like our first one?
False, both Greece and Rome had 'freedom of speech' which differed in meaning depending on period, as does our own, and still neither group allowed symbols that were openly antagonistic towards their society because that's just plain stupid. Also, I'm not advocating the government get involved in any way, the public shaming campaign for the institutions that harbor confederate symbols seems to be doing the job very nicely, there are some things society rectifies on it's own without government intervention, this is one of those cases. And furthermore who's speech actually been hindered by all these participation trophies being taken down? No one, because they were the property of the local governments that had them removed, not private citizens.
Now, if you're referring to the antifa protesters at the rally let me ask you this: should ISIS be allowed to have a march down Charlotteville unhindered by counter protesters? Because with this issue from where I'm looking at that's what you're asking ME to accept, and truth be told confederate traitors killed a s**t ton more Americans than ISIS ever will. All that said, there was still no violation of the first amendment, because that contract states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Nowhere in that clause does the government make guarantees that your freedom of speech can't be disrupted by other people, protested, or even mocked, it just states that the government will not get involved.
I am NOT, in ANY way asking you to accept ISIS "to have a march down Charlottesville"----that's LUDICROUS, IMO, because they're not citizens!!
Anyway, I've got all kinds of other things to say about this post----but, I'm not interested in bangin' my head against a wall, today; meaning, you and I will never change each other's minds, on this matter, so.....
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
Campin_Cat
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
18 Aug 2017, 10:11 am
Now, another statue has been taken-down----again, in the middle of the night----IIRC, another Taney, one. It was located in Maryland's capital (Annapolis), on the State House grounds----it had been there, for almost 150 years.
Edit: I wanted to add the part about how long it had been there.
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
Last edited by Campin_Cat on 18 Aug 2017, 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
18 Aug 2017, 10:14 am
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Maybe a statue of Robert E.Lee doesn't belong in a public park,but if someone wants one in their front yard,then it's their right,no matter how odious some find it.Of course the owner of the statue is going to pay hell for it every Halloween.
I don't see why it wouldn't belong in a public park. Statues if Lee and other Confederate generals have been around in public places for over 100 years. Are all statues to be banned from public parks? What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. People need to toughen up a little and stop letting others tell them how to feel.
Perhaps you need to toughen up and accept that these statues are going down.
Why do you want these statues anyway? Are you emotionally attached to them? Why?
Face it. These statues are going down and there's nothing you can do about it.
NOTHING
U mad bro?
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Campin_Cat
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Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
18 Aug 2017, 10:40 am
Misslizard wrote:
They probably need to be removed now anyway,for their own safety and to prevent the hapless being smashed by one getting yanked down.
Yeah, this is actually the ONLY reason I'm in agreement with their removal, at-this-point----cuz, I don't want to see them, get smashed.
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
Campin_Cat
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Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 62
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
18 Aug 2017, 10:54 am
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Why do you want these statues anyway? Are you emotionally attached to them? Why?
This is not about whether or not someone is emotionally attached to them----or, at least, it's not ONLY about that----this is about people, who WANT them there, having that right.
Like I said, on another thread, one people's right shouldn't be taken-away, for another people to have THEIR right. I feel if someone doesn't like lookin' at them, they can choose to not go to those locations----that way EVERYBODY wins----the people who want them, get to have them, and the people who don't wanna see them, don't have to; besides, I doubt, very much, if most people even really had a TOTAL conscious of them, being there----or, if they DID remember seeing a statue, wherever, they didn't know who the statue was, until all this uproar (I've walked-by a million-and-one statues [not literal], and never looked-up, to see who they were, cuz I had other things on my mind).
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
18 Aug 2017, 11:14 am
Campin_Cat wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
There's acknowledging bad parts of one's heritage and then there's promoting them, confederate monuments (lower case, they were never an officially recognized country) falls into the later. No country in the history of the world has ever allowed the flag of sedition to fly in it's own country, nor monuments for the traitors partaking in said sedition...except for this one, and there's a reason for that: it prevents closure and the society from moving forward, and here we are 150 years later...
What if it's merely because no one has an Amendment, like our first one?
False, both Greece and Rome had 'freedom of speech' which differed in meaning depending on period, as does our own, and still neither group allowed symbols that were openly antagonistic towards their society because that's just plain stupid. Also, I'm not advocating the government get involved in any way, the public shaming campaign for the institutions that harbor confederate symbols seems to be doing the job very nicely, there are some things society rectifies on it's own without government intervention, this is one of those cases. And furthermore who's speech actually been hindered by all these participation trophies being taken down? No one, because they were the property of the local governments that had them removed, not private citizens.
Now, if you're referring to the antifa protesters at the rally let me ask you this: should ISIS be allowed to have a march down Charlotteville unhindered by counter protesters? Because with this issue from where I'm looking at that's what you're asking ME to accept, and truth be told confederate traitors killed a s**t ton more Americans than ISIS ever will. All that said, there was still no violation of the first amendment, because that contract states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Nowhere in that clause does the government make guarantees that your freedom of speech can't be disrupted by other people, protested, or even mocked, it just states that the government will not get involved.
I am NOT, in ANY way asking you to accept ISIS "to have a march down Charlottesville"----that's LUDICROUS, IMO, because they're not citizens!!
Anyway, I've got all kinds of other things to say about this post----but, I'm not interested in bangin' my head against a wall, today; meaning, you and I will never change each other's minds, on this matter, so.....
And all I'll reply is: ISIS has members that are U.S. citizens (which should be revoked the minute they take up arms against the country, but it's not the law so here we are), Canadian citizens and British citizens. Now if those American citizens who also happen to support ISIS planned a march you would be correct in saying they have every right under free speech to hold their march, but I would also expect a giant counter demonstration and not much of a complaint about it. That's the way I feel about the modern confederate supporters: they're free to speak their mind and I'm free to call them out for being the traitors they are, and if the numbers are on my side (which they are) we'll raise so much hell that their symbols are taken down merely to prevent civil unrest-- that's the way society operates, regardless of era or government system.
Last edited by Aristophanes on 18 Aug 2017, 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
18 Aug 2017, 11:18 am
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Maybe a statue of Robert E.Lee doesn't belong in a public park,but if someone wants one in their front yard,then it's their right,no matter how odious some find it.Of course the owner of the statue is going to pay hell for it every Halloween.
I don't see why it wouldn't belong in a public park. Statues if Lee and other Confederate generals have been around in public places for over 100 years. Are all statues to be banned from public parks? What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. People need to toughen up a little and stop letting others tell them how to feel.
Perhaps you need to toughen up and accept that these statues are going down.
Why do you want these statues anyway? Are you emotionally attached to them? Why?
Face it. These statues are going down and there's nothing you can do about it.
NOTHING
U mad bro?
Wouldn't bother me a small fraction as much as the Trump presidency is bothering you. Every one of your butthurt little anti-Trump/anti-conservative rants is a pleasure to read.
_________________
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- Thomas Jefferson
18 Aug 2017, 11:22 am
rick sanchez wrote:
Raptor wrote:
rick sanchez wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Maybe a statue of Robert E.Lee doesn't belong in a public park,but if someone wants one in their front yard,then it's their right,no matter how odious some find it.Of course the owner of the statue is going to pay hell for it every Halloween.
I don't see why it wouldn't belong in a public park. Statues if Lee and other Confederate generals have been around in public places for over 100 years. Are all statues to be banned from public parks? What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. People need to toughen up a little and stop letting others tell them how to feel.
That is a f*****g weak argument.
Haven't seen you make one yet. Being obnoxious, trolling, and name calling isn't making an argument.
Quote:
If you are going to use that the stop using your computer.
Gonna make me stop?
Another weak one, "your arguments are weak, so mine dont have to be."
Your opinion means very little to me, but I am offended by stupidity.
But you keep reading my posts anyway.
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
18 Aug 2017, 11:30 am
Since statues are symbolic speech, shouldn't everyone with an opinion about them remember the words of author Evelyn Beatrice Hall when she wrote the famous phrase "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" --The Friends of Voltaire (1906)?
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