The apocalypse has a new date: 2048.

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EzraS
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18 Jan 2019, 11:44 pm

cberg wrote:
So don't be afraid of science? People leveraging data is not a political excuse for ignorance towards science.


Like with religion, most people go by what they're told. Like with religion it's usually from what they consider to be an authoritative expert reliable source.



EzraS
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18 Jan 2019, 11:49 pm

cberg wrote:
No scientific data is required for this.

Ask some farmers.


You mean the ones during the 1930's dust bowl? Imagine if that took place today. People would be running around like chicken little with his head cut off.



cberg
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18 Jan 2019, 11:49 pm

Religion lacks calibrated instrumentation. I work on satellite image processing, you have the tools, built by the federal government, to watch this process for yourself on the same device you're telling me to ignore it with. The entire gaseous composition of the atmosphere is at your fingertips in tremendous resolution so stop telling me you've arrived at an answer because I can see from here you are in the wrong app.


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18 Jan 2019, 11:54 pm

Environmentalists first predicted impending climate disaster in the 1970s, but they didn’t call it global warming. Back then, it was “Global Cooling” that would end life on earth as we knew it. The smog of industrial pollutants was blocking out sunlight so severely, we were warned, that our planet would enter a new ice age unless we acted quickly. Magazine covers featured pictures of snowball earth.

In the eighties, we cleaned up our air, the threatened the ice age did not occur, and thousands of people with time on their hands and seeking purpose in life had discovered that they could make a career out of disaster prophecy. Thus, it was time for a new catastrophe: “Global Warming” Well, maybe not so new. Same villain: us and our machines. Same victim: our delicate planet earth. Same threat: the end of life as we know it. Only the predicted temperature had changed.

Global warming appealed to the press’s appetite for calamity and became an instant hit. The headlines wrote themselves: The poles will melt! The oceans will rise! Lakes and rivers will dry up! Farmlands will become deserts! Millions will starve to death! This was big. Government would have to join the fight.

In the nineties, environmentalists switched their emphasis to “Climate Change” This was a marketing move. Global warming could credibly be blamed for warming, but climate change could be blamed for anything. If hurricanes increase one year, that’s evidence of climate change. If they decrease the next year, well, that’s climate change too. Droughts are caused by climate change, but so are exceptional rains. Warmer winters prove climate change, but so do colder winters. (Claiming that frigid temperatures are caused by global warming would sound ridiculous.) “Climate Change” was disaster gold. It couldn’t be disproved.

Which is exactly why it’s not science. It’s pseudo-science, according to the great philosopher of science, Karl Popper, who pointed out that for any theory to be considered scientific, it must be falsifiable. There must be something within the theory itself that can be disproved.

Climate change alarmists have made lots of predictions. Perhaps too many, because not one of their predictions whose expiration date has passed has proven correct. Here’s a sampling, courtesy of Anthony Watts at wattsupwiththat.com:

* 1988, Dr. James Hansen. Asked by author Rob Reiss how the greenhouse effect was likely to affect the neighborhood below Hansen’s office in NYC in the next 20 years, Hansen replied: “The West Side Highway [which runs along the Hudson River] will be under water. And there will be tape across the windows across the street because of high winds. And the same birds won’t be there. The trees in the median strip will change…There will be more police cars…[since] you know what happens to crime when the heat goes up.”

* Sept 19, 1989, St. Louis Post-Dispatch: “New York will probably be like Florida 15 years from now.”

* 1990, Michael Oppenheimer, The Environmental Defense Fund: “By 1996, the Platte River of Nebraska would be dry, while a continent-wide black blizzard of prairie topsoil will stop traffic on interstates, strip paint from houses and shut down computers… The Mexican police will round up illegal American migrants surging into Mexico seeking work as field hands.”

* October 15, 1990, Carl Sagan: “The planet could face an ecological and agricultural catastrophe by the next decade if global warming trends continue.”

* 1990, Actress Meryl Streep: “By the year 2000 – that’s less than ten years away — earth’s climate will be warmer than it’s been in over 100,000 years. If we don’t do something, there’ll be enormous calamities in a very short time.”

* July 26, 1999, The Birmingham Post: “Scientists are warning that some of the Himalayan glaciers could vanish within ten years because of global warming. A build-up of greenhouse gases is blamed for the meltdown, which could lead to drought and flooding in the region affecting millions of people.”

* April 1, 2000, Der Spiegel: “Good bye winter. Never again snow?”

* March 29, 2001, CNN: “In ten years’ time, most of the low-lying atolls surrounding Tuvalu’s nine islands in the South Pacific Ocean will be submerged under water as global warming rises sea levels.”

* Oct 20, 2009, Gordon Brown, UK Prime Minister (referring to the Copenhagen climate conference): “World leaders have 50 days to save the Earth from irreversible global warming.”

Source: Why Climate Change Isn’t Science


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EzraS
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18 Jan 2019, 11:54 pm

cberg wrote:
Religion lacks calibrated instrumentation. I work on satellite image processing, you have the tools, built by the federal government, to watch this process for yourself on the same device you're telling me to ignore it with. The entire gaseous composition of the atmosphere is at your fingertips in tremendous resolution so stop telling me you've arrived at an answer because I can see from here you are in the wrong app.


I was talking about the general population. They believe what they're told if it's from what they consider to be the right source. Are you telling me what you know is based on an app?



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18 Jan 2019, 11:59 pm

No, I'm telling you it's based on more software than you can imagine. Our license sales for ONE application last year were over ten million dollars, but that's not my point.

Do you want georeferenced hyperspectral images of the ozone hole & CO² proliferation over time? It's real & reality is a lot cooler than just feeling secure within your species.

Too bad the government is currently collapsing, or I could provide data here & now.
https://governmentshutdown.noaa.gov/


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EzraS
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19 Jan 2019, 12:06 am

cberg wrote:
No, I'm telling you it's based on more software than you can imagine. Our license sales for ONE application last year were over ten million dollars, but that's not my point.

Do you want georeferenced hyperspectral images of the ozone hole & CO² proliferation over time? It's real & reality is a lot cooler than just feeling secure within your species.

Too bad the government is currently collapsing, or I could provide data here & now.
https://governmentshutdown.noaa.gov/


There was top level data in the 70's saying the earth should be dead by now. There was a scientist just as sure of his data then as you are now, saying the world was going to end in 30-50 years.



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19 Jan 2019, 12:10 am

I'm not managing any such data, I'm only encouraging you to form data based conjectures instead of historical ones; both are important but we didn't have much stuff in orbit to measure these phenomena in the '70s.


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cberg
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19 Jan 2019, 12:12 am

I for one actually share some of your optimism but I wouldn't dare base mine on mistrust of what's commonly agreed to be factual. I think doomsayers underestimate nature plain & simple; I don't believe for a second I can see every trick in nature's bag.


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EzraS
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19 Jan 2019, 12:19 am

cberg wrote:
I'm not managing any such data, I'm only encouraging you to form data based conjectures instead of historical ones; both are important but we didn't have much stuff in orbit to measure these phenomena in the '70s.


Conjecture is what it's all about. This thread began with a prediction.



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19 Jan 2019, 12:22 am

Please note the different types of conjectures; some are both historical & scientific, it's that stuff I prefer digging through.


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19 Jan 2019, 1:41 am

@EzraS What proofs do you need to admit climate changes? Seem to me that there is more than enough.


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19 Jan 2019, 2:48 am

EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
RichardJ wrote:
Last week I saw an article saying that by 2050 Cocoa plants would be extinct because of global warming, now everything else is, too. All agenda driven propaganda, in my opinion, designed to scare everyone into giving up their last remaining freedoms and money, because of you don't, the world will end, and for the less sophisticated reader, "you won't get to eat chocolate".

What happened to the new ice age we're supposed to be in? The best climatologists of the 1970s say I should be covered in ice right now. It was warmer in the age of the Roman empire than it is predicted to be in the next few centuries at the rate we're claimed to be warming it(which itself gets proven to be too high every time it is checked with new data comparing past predictions to actuality).

@goldfish21, just because we have the most sophisticated equipment and advanced knowledge yet, doesn't mean we're close to knowing everything. Anyone in 1950 could have said the very same thing and been wrong then too.


This is what I pointed out earlier. For decades the powers that be have used "the sky is falling," scare tactics that never came true. Now that things are really actually happening, people don't believe it. Or maybe they refuse to believe it? (Cognitive dissonance?) Either way, all one has to do is take a look outside if you're not one to watch the news.. record storms, record temperatures everywhere around the world, winds so strong the scale has to be extended, ice melting, forests not only being cut down but dying, fewer animals/insects etc etc.. scientists are not making up scary bedtime stories; they're sounding the alarm bell in hopes that we wake up and save ourselves.


Those were scientific experts at the height of climate change science back then. They had just as much evidence and said the same exact stuff. My dad says it used to give him anxiety when he was a kid. I do take a look outside quite a bit and commune with nature quite a lot I am not noticing anything amiss, so that test isn't working. The weather is exactly normal. All the plants, animals, birds and fish are all the same as ever. Absolutely nothing has cased me to think that's strange or something isn't right here. Back when my dad was a kid, they were going on about record storms, record temperatures, record this and that, one doomsday prediction after the other on and on - same stuff back then as today. There was some guy saying the same exact stuff about climate change as you, 10 years before you were born.


goldfish21 wrote:
Thanks for proving my point.


Your point was that the same false alarm climate change warnings taking place in the 70's are like the ones currently?

goldfish21 wrote:
If scientific evidence of species going extinct, ocean acidification, coral reefs dying, GHG's in the air, forests dying etc is too difficult for you to process and comprehend then perhaps you need a little more juvenile explanation? I highly recommend you re-watch (or watch for the first time if you've never seen them) "FernGully: The Last Rainforest," and "Avatar," so that maybe you'll begin to understand how interconnected with & codependent we are on our natural surroundings.


So you're saying you get your information from fantasy films. I'm not surprised.

goldfish21 wrote:
And the weather hasn't been "exactly normal." We had a week or so of 35C/100F temps last Summer. That's very abnormal. There were heat waves all over the world setting temperature records. Things are changing and it's due to human activity. You like to use the word "kooky," every once in a while. Being a climate science denier makes you sound kooky af.


Alberta - 43.3 °C /109.9 °F - July 21, 1931
British Columbia - 44.4 °C /111.9 °F - July 16 and 17, 1941
Manitoba - 44.4 °C /111.9 °F - July 11 and 12, 1936
New Brunswick - 39.4 °C /102.9 °F - August 18, 1935
Newfoundland and Labrador - 38.3 °C /101 °F - July 6, 1921
Northwest Territories - 39.4 °C /102.9 °F - July 18, 1941
Nova Scotia - 38.3 °C /100.9 °F - August 19, 1935
Ontario - 42.2 °C /108.0 °F - July 20, 1919
Prince Edward Island - 36.7 °C /98.1 °F - August 19, 1935
Quebec - 36.7 °C /98.1 °F - August 19, 1935
Saskatchewan - 40.0 °C /104.0 °F - July 6, 1921


No. My point that people have been fatigued by false alarms & now that the s**t is really hitting the fan and the United Nations has sounded the alarm bells and admitted to the general public that we have to improve everything we do ASAP or we're on a collision course with our own extinction, people don't believe it.

I've never even seen FernGully (save for a few clips) I was only recommending them because it seems that scientific articles are beyond your grasp.

Do you have any idea how large British Columbia is or how varied the climates are throughout it? :? I'm guessing no. 40+C is normal in Osoyoos, a desert resort town on a lake that crosses the US border, but 35C for over a week at the Southern most tip of the West Coast is unheard of.


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19 Jan 2019, 2:52 am

cberg wrote:
Politics has nothing to do with mass extinction in geological time, that's asinine & you know it.


Ding ding ding. If only climate change only killed climate science deniers.. but noooo, they're willing to kill us all vs. accept that science is real & their orange idol is a liar.


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19 Jan 2019, 2:53 am

EzraS wrote:
cberg wrote:
Quote:
Your point was that the same false alarm climate change warnings taking place in the 70's are like the ones currently?


Yes. It's 2019, the data is not congruent, the 70's saw more ozone depletion & now the issue is primarily Caebon dioxide.


And later on it will be something else. "Scientists have uncovered new data that radically alters what they've been saying for decades". Seems I hear or read a statement to that effect mighty often.


Are you just pretending to be stupid to get a rise out of us? :?


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19 Jan 2019, 2:55 am

cberg wrote:
Religion lacks calibrated instrumentation. I work on satellite image processing, you have the tools, built by the federal government, to watch this process for yourself on the same device you're telling me to ignore it with. The entire gaseous composition of the atmosphere is at your fingertips in tremendous resolution so stop telling me you've arrived at an answer because I can see from here you are in the wrong app.


:heart:


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