Page 4 of 4 [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

30 May 2019, 6:58 am

I never credited Hitler and the Nazis with being imaginative and creative.

The Nazis just knew what the ethnic Germans (non-Jewish) wanted and needed. That populace was concerned with basic human existence. They knew about the hatred of the Jews—but saw it as merely abstract and didn’t believe they would take the concrete genocidal actions which they ultimately took.

They were blinded by their own despair.



BlossX
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 24 May 2019
Age: 27
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 272

30 May 2019, 7:07 am

I think you guys are writing too much and are too much worried about the far right movements.

We have to make a pure victim count based on ideology:

right victims (nazi/fascism) : how many 20-30 million people considering also civilians and war casualties.

Left (socialism/communism) : 50 + millions, political enemies, different genocides.

The thing is that nazism and fascism is banned nowaday (especially here in Italy)

Whereas communism and socialism are free to spread due to being justified by leftist: We are communist, but not like the dictator from China. I could say the opposite about fascism: i embrace fascism ideas but I do not accept what Mussolini did with that movement. (No you can't say that in Italy, you risk jail for up to two years)

So I would say there is an eternal unbalance between right and left, given to the fact that left parties won the WW2.

Want to hear yours.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

30 May 2019, 7:22 am

I don't care about the difference between 20 million and 50 million.....both are equally genocidal. Both are equally evil. Millions of Tutsis/Hutus in Rwanda were killed in a genocide in 1994---that's equally genocidal, and equally evil.

I believe Communists should be banned if they profess a Stalinist sort of ideology. Or if they believe in some kind of totalitarian government. Not if they are Marxists without that ideology.

The Nazis, pure and simple, professed a genocidal ideology. Not all Communists profess such an ideology. I'm an anti-Communist, by the way. I would never incorporate a Marxist mode of thought into my overall worldview.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 30 May 2019, 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

30 May 2019, 7:24 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Not just Europe, Modi in India

Modi is certainly a hindu nationalist but I wouldn't put him in the same bracket as European far right movements

Both the Nazis and Modi encourage and benefit from destabilizing political street violence.


_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,263
Location: the island of defective toy santas

30 May 2019, 7:28 am

people who promiscuously bandy the term "nazi" fail to remember those nasty little hummers were a singular evil. the enormity of what they did, regardless of total body count, beggars comparison. no other large bureaucratic organization was as imaginatively, diabolically cruel and with as much casual alacrity.



magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

30 May 2019, 7:31 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't care about the difference between 20 million and 50 million.....both are equally genocidal. Both are equally evil. Millions of Tutsis/Hutus in Rwanda were killed in a genocide in 1994---that's equally genocidal, and equally evil.

I believe Communists should be banned if they profess a Stalinist sort of ideology. Not if they are Marxists without that ideology.

The Nazis, pure and simple, professed a genocidal ideology. Not all Communists profess such an ideology. I'm an anti-Communist, by the way. I would never incorporate a Marxist mode of thought into my overall worldview.

And not everyone who identifies as far right or even a nationalist approves genocide.

By the way, I don't identify as one, last elections I voted left. But I know some personally, I talked to them, their attitude towards Hitler is probably quite similar to most European lefties' attitude towards Stalin. Many even claim Hitler was a leftist (as Nazi is derived from "national socialism" and our local far right despises any form of socialism).


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

30 May 2019, 7:37 am

I would never absolutely equate Nazism with "nationalism in general." Though Nazism was an extreme form of German nationalism, combined with an ideology of German supremacy based upon the idea that Germans were, somehow, "Aryans."

I don't believe in nationalism----but there are some nationalists who believe in a more benign sort of nationalism than that found, say, in the United States.

Basically, Trump is a "nationalist" in an isolationist sense. He is not a Nazi, though. As far as I can determine, he doesn't have genocidal feelings. The Radical Right does approve of Trump more than they approve of most people. It doesn't mean that Trump fully embraces the Radical Right. I do believe that he tolerates their existence more than most Presidents in recent history.

I believe he embraces, more, a business/Social Darwinist/dog-eat-dog sort of ideology, in addition to his American nationalism.

Trump also happens to believe in suppressing the press. And he also wants to have an undue influence in the Judiciary which I find dangerous. I don't believe he would prevail in suppressing the Legislative Branch (Congress), though. It could become like Parliament and the King in the early 17th century in England if he makes that attempt. The Legislative Branch is strong in the United States.



Tollorin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,178
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada

30 May 2019, 2:15 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
And just to clarify: I'm neither left or right, I'm in the middle. Here we have official middle parties, not just left and right.


magz wrote:
My short version of what's happening:
The center does its best to avoid adressing any of the problems that concern either the right or the left - or they sometimes do some erratic, superficial movements that hardly help anything.


The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.

Edmund Burke 1770

Seems we never learn the lessons of history...

A lot of time, there is nothing they can do. :(


_________________
Down with speculators!! !


KyCoo
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 10 Dec 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 25
Location: Los Angeles

31 May 2019, 2:00 am

auntblabby wrote:
from Yeats' "the second coming" -

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity
.


Poetry for our times. - Absolutely! Sigh. it is also the stuff of nightmare though. The rise of global right. Narendra Modi got elected in India too. Farce of a democracy there too



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

31 May 2019, 2:05 am

magz wrote:
I'm far more worried by something totally different:
Our two main parties, PiS and PO, openly promote hatered. Not towards some immigrants or other minorities, no. This doesn't catch in the mainstream. Towards the other party and those who vote for them.
And it catches. They really spread a lot of hate, targeting the-other-party-voters. This is a real issue you can feel here. They generate a conflict, dividing the society.
Actually, something quite similar I see on WP concerning Trump supporters and Trump haters.

What is ironic, our main parties started from being quite close to each other on the political spectrum. They are not divided by political programs, they are divided by mutual hate. And they have almost all the voters! That worries me a lot.


What happened to the velvet revolution started by Lech Walensa?



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

31 May 2019, 2:08 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Not just Europe, Modi in India

Modi is certainly a hindu nationalist but I wouldn't put him in the same bracket as European far right movements

Both the Nazis and Modi encourage and benefit from destabilizing political street violence.


I think some regional elements of Modi's BJP party (in Gujurat and Maharashtra) are more far right in their ideology and have in the past organised street marches attacking muslims, mosques and other ethnic minority groups. Modi himself doesn't openly support these elements but at the same time they are allied to his BJP party.



magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

31 May 2019, 2:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
What happened to the velvet revolution started by Lech Walensa?

The two parties inheriting from it started hating each other.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

31 May 2019, 2:35 am

POlitics all over the world is like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzoicX0LCUI



BlossX
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 24 May 2019
Age: 27
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 272

31 May 2019, 3:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
POlitics all over the world is like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzoicX0LCUI



very very disturbing to hear and see.

Wth was that



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

31 May 2019, 4:16 am

Frankly now that you mention it that was quite disturbing :skull: