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Boris Johnson landslide, Corbyn quits as election leader

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Biscuitman
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14 Dec 2019, 4:40 am

JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
Thoroughly disappointed by the result, but it is what it is. I was always going to be disappointed though. IMO we are experiencing possibly the lowest British politics, and the standard of MP's, has been at for a very very long time, maybe in living memory. Whatever the result was I was not going to particularly like it tbh as they are all an absolute shower and there was no one I was particularly rooting for.

It does concern me that the country is now going off in quite a stark dramatic direction that it hasn't gone down before. It's going to be quite a new Britain, one that we haven't really seen before but the signs have been there for all to see for 9.5 years (welfare cuts, DWP policy changes, homelessness shooting up, more foodbanks than McDonalds etc) but that is what the voters have chosen as their future and we ave to wait and see how it all plays out now.

I have a friend from a country that has a long troubled history and is now going through more turmoil. I have asked him how he keeps so chirpy about it and he said that history shows it is always 1 step backwards followed by 2 steps forward. If something really does go bad then it is only a matter of time before something positive emerges out of it to turn it around. I am keeping that positive message with me for the foreseeable.


You were hoping for a hung parliament so cut the c**p.


I was very open about wanting a hung parliament. But wanting that is now apparently crap. How pleasant of you.


My point was that you were happy for the country to stay in turmoil because of YOUR beliefs. So don't make out you care about others.


Said a number of times I would have been happiest (but no solution would make me 'happy') with a hung parliament or either major party in as a minority Govt. Someone wanting something different to you doesn't have to mean they are looking for turmoil. We really shouldn't be presuming we understand others beliefs based on forum chit chat.

It's fine for people to hold different opinions.

It's also the season of goodwill. All the best to you and yours John.



Amity
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14 Dec 2019, 5:10 am

Corbyn was not a realistic alternative, it's such a shame that it's taken the crumbling of the red wall at such a pivotal moment in time for him to step down. Labour needs a 'Blair quality' leader to be viable for the next time, by then there might be an appetite for change.

Opinion... There are just enough comfortable voters in the UK believing that their way of life is secure, the outcome of this election is not relatable to them yet. They might even have been in a rush to get life back to normal and be done with the uncertainty.



beneficii
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14 Dec 2019, 7:03 am

I seem to remember there was a lot of smearing not too long ago about how Jeremy Corbyn and Labour was supposed to be anti-Semitic, which turned out to have zero basis in fact. I think even a lot of people on the left were throwing Corbyn and Labour under the bus for this; I remember our very own The_Walrus was constantly peddling concerns about the supposed widespread anti-Semitism of Labour.

So I say this, to The_Walrus and other leftists in the UK, enjoy Brexit. You deserve it.


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14 Dec 2019, 7:30 am

beneficii wrote:
I seem to remember there was a lot of smearing not too long ago about how Jeremy Corbyn and Labour was supposed to be anti-Semitic, which turned out to have zero basis in fact. I think even a lot of people on the left were throwing Corbyn and Labour under the bus for this; I remember our very own The_Walrus was constantly peddling concerns about the supposed widespread anti-Semitism of Labour.

So I say this, to The_Walrus and other leftists in the UK, enjoy Brexit. You deserve it.


Don't throw everyone into a group, thank you.


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14 Dec 2019, 7:33 am

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-21092578


It was Corbyn rather than the economic policies that put people off voting Labour . I think, I may be wrong though, that there is a long running poll that shows current satisfaction or dissatisfaction with a party's leader . How a party's leader does on that poll gives a fair indication of his party's chances of success at a GE .


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Magna
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14 Dec 2019, 10:41 am

I think the landslide result, not a close race, not winning by a decent margin, but a landslide result shows that people regardless of where they live want freedom. Freedom to live their own lives, freedom to make their own choices, freedom to work, freedom to make decisions that directly affect their lives, freedom to be proud of their heritage, I could on.

Simplified, it comes down to big unaccountable government or individual freedom and community led governance. The EU is big unaccountable government. Sovereignty in a country with free and fair elections is community led governance.

Some people believe in big unaccountable government running their lives and making most of their decisions for them (ie "cradle to grave" aka the "nanny state") and some of those oddly want this form of governance foisted on on everyone else.

More people in the U.K. apparently want sovereignty and more direct control over how the government of their country works.

Media being the loud mouthpiece of global big government aside, I think more people generally are going to opt for more freedom, not less.



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14 Dec 2019, 3:42 pm

Likely, British people are experiencing a decreasing standard of living, and are looking for someone to blame, now they blame the EU.


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Raised By Wolves
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14 Dec 2019, 4:12 pm

Persephone29 wrote:

This is how the current UK system appears to me, an outsider: If the UK doesn't overhaul the NHS and stop allowing so many to take advantage of those services (open borders), they are going to run out of money. They have overloaded the system with too many people and the plan is always tax, or revenue generated by EU participation. When the land mass isn't getting any bigger, the hospitals aren't getting any bigger, the providers are not superhuman can't handle the unlimited need, even if they had the money. There are more people swamping the UK, stressing the system further while putting nothing back into the economy, only taking from it. So, in essence the average UK citizen lives to put a roof over their heads, eat and know that they can be treated within 3-6 months if they get cancer of the butthole (which isn't all that great a time frame to begin with). Forgive me for being so unevolved, that's not my idea of life. I would argue that half of the UK population has lowered the bar so much, they see the hope for something more or better than mere survival as selfish. Just how an outsider views it...


your outsider view is exactly that and therefore inevitably influenced by the way the issues are presented to the public over here by the media and are simply not true

the NHS and the country are not being swamped by people taking advantage of 'open borders' because the borders are not 'open' and the vast majority of immigration from the EU under current freedom of movement initiatives is from people who come here to work and work they do, very often in sectors which the indigenous population have shunned as being below them and on which our economy depends and yes they pay taxes and contribute in many other ways

I genuinely fear for our economy when new 'points-based' immigration law comes in because we don't just need professionals we need workers for low and semi-skilled jobs too but they are not the right kind of people for the snobby Brits who only want nice middle-class people coming here



Biscuitman
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14 Dec 2019, 4:40 pm

Magna wrote:
I think the landslide result, not a close race, not winning by a decent margin, but a landslide result shows that people regardless of where they live want freedom


The landslide was constituencies, not population percentage.

More people actually voted for remain/2nd ref/revoke parties than voted for leave parties.

One of the main headlines from the election has been how the country remains equally as divided as it has been over the past 3.5 years, but we needed something to get things resolved, turned out that thing was our first past the post constituency based election model.



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14 Dec 2019, 5:00 pm

Amity wrote:
Corbyn was not a realistic alternative, it's such a shame that it's taken the crumbling of the red wall at such a pivotal moment in time for him to step down. Labour needs a 'Blair quality' leader to be viable for the next time, by then there might be an appetite for change.


I don't think that will make much difference. The current Tory strategy was stolen from the evil geniuses behind the New Labour campaign. Suborn the media, spout meaningless slogans. Boris may well have out-Blaired Blair himself.

Amity wrote:
Opinion... There are just enough comfortable voters in the UK believing that their way of life is secure, the outcome of this election is not relatable to them yet.


A misreading of the situation. The vast majority of people, especially Tory voters are very insecure and worried about their future.


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beneficii
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14 Dec 2019, 6:16 pm

smudge wrote:
beneficii wrote:
I seem to remember there was a lot of smearing not too long ago about how Jeremy Corbyn and Labour was supposed to be anti-Semitic, which turned out to have zero basis in fact. I think even a lot of people on the left were throwing Corbyn and Labour under the bus for this; I remember our very own The_Walrus was constantly peddling concerns about the supposed widespread anti-Semitism of Labour.

So I say this, to The_Walrus and other leftists in the UK, enjoy Brexit. You deserve it.


Don't throw everyone into a group, thank you.


I'm just noticing a trend of people on the left throwing other people on the left under the bus, and the circular firing squads, which is why the left keeps losing.


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14 Dec 2019, 8:10 pm

Raised By Wolves wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:

This is how the current UK system appears to me, an outsider: If the UK doesn't overhaul the NHS and stop allowing so many to take advantage of those services (open borders), they are going to run out of money. They have overloaded the system with too many people and the plan is always tax, or revenue generated by EU participation. When the land mass isn't getting any bigger, the hospitals aren't getting any bigger, the providers are not superhuman can't handle the unlimited need, even if they had the money. There are more people swamping the UK, stressing the system further while putting nothing back into the economy, only taking from it. So, in essence the average UK citizen lives to put a roof over their heads, eat and know that they can be treated within 3-6 months if they get cancer of the butthole (which isn't all that great a time frame to begin with). Forgive me for being so unevolved, that's not my idea of life. I would argue that half of the UK population has lowered the bar so much, they see the hope for something more or better than mere survival as selfish. Just how an outsider views it...


your outsider view is exactly that and therefore inevitably influenced by the way the issues are presented to the public over here by the media and are simply not true

the NHS and the country are not being swamped by people taking advantage of 'open borders' because the borders are not 'open' and the vast majority of immigration from the EU under current freedom of movement initiatives is from people who come here to work and work they do, very often in sectors which the indigenous population have shunned as being below them and on which our economy depends and yes they pay taxes and contribute in many other ways

I genuinely fear for our economy when new 'points-based' immigration law comes in because we don't just need professionals we need workers for low and semi-skilled jobs too but they are not the right kind of people for the snobby Brits who only want nice middle-class people coming here



Okay, I can understand that my view is not accurate. Why did they do it, then? Why did Boris win? Is everyone who voted for him dumb, misinformed, misguided? Everyone? Why is it that when the pendulum finally swings back, it's because everyone else is stupid? That just doesn't make sense.


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14 Dec 2019, 8:23 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
In your opinion what was the deciding factor in the result

1. Desire to get Brexit done and over with already
2. Corbyn is thought of as too radically left
3. Charges of Corbyn and Labour anti semitism
4. Corbyn’s persona
5. Russian meddling
6. Other

Does it portend anything about how the American 2020 election will go?


I think there's valid points here on Johnson's landslide victory and (yes) it is a portend for next year's US election.



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14 Dec 2019, 8:29 pm

Well, Boris Johnson is to the left of Joe Biden. Johnson supports universal health care, for one. He also believes we need to take action on climate change and is avowedly pro-choice.


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15 Dec 2019, 12:47 am

beneficii wrote:
Well, Boris Johnson is to the left of Joe Biden. Johnson supports universal health care, for one. He also believes we need to take action on climate change and is avowedly pro-choice.


Yes that's true, we also need to take into account the number of left-wing voters who did not vote which helped Boris win working class electorates that have never voted conservative before. We have to accept Corbyn was not a universally popular choice for the left so rather than vote Boris, they just stayed home.

Having said that here in Australia our incredibly unpopular conservative government won the un-losable election this year and we have mandatory voting. Alas our labour leader Bill Shorten was such a poor leader it wouldn't have mattered.

The left is struggling globally.



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15 Dec 2019, 1:26 am

Magna wrote:
Media being the loud mouthpiece of global big government aside, I think more people generally are going to opt for more freedom, not less.


In the UK the media is largely the mouthpiece of the UK Conservative party.


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