Miss Hitler Contest

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fluffysaurus
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12 Jun 2020, 8:17 am

cyberdad wrote:

The idea of the Nordic as the supreme manifestation of human evolution was popular all over northern Europe including Victorian Britain (not just Germany)

Utter bollocks! Victorian Britain was the centre of the world, we were hardly going to be ''oo look the German Principalities are finally managing to unite into a country, they must be superior''
While we English are technically Northern Europeans (we're more mixed than that) we had been ruled for over 800 hundred years by the decedents of the French, and all our ideas throughout that time about racial superiority, beauty, art, and civilisation came from Southern Europe particularly the Greeks. We had more recently through the industrial revolution, the Unification into The United Kingdom, and the expansion of the Empire progressed to the point that we felt confident of our superiority to everyone.

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Wolfram87
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12 Jun 2020, 9:17 am

cyberdad wrote:

Wolfram87 wrote:

Which is funny, because "Survival of the fittest" as an expression was coined by an ardent opponent to Darwins theory and is not a part of the theory itself. It was meant as a crass summation and dismissal. A more apt summation would be "survival of the most adaptable".

Actually Darwin's theory of evolution states (and I quote)"Survival of the form that will leave the most copies of itself in successive generations."

I think you will find even if Darwin didn't say "Survival of the fittest" that the two statements are synonymous

They aren't quite, though.

"Survival of the fittest" is a lot more immediate; who is the most fit to survive on an individual or group level (and, by implication, who is not.)

"Survival of the form..." operates on a greater timescale: the form of the shark or the crocodile that have been only superficially altered over millions of years. Darwin posited that a mechanism for descent with inherited modifications must exist, but Mendels work hadn't been rediscovered yet to supply the mechanism to Darwins observations.

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Karamazov
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12 Jun 2020, 9:32 am

fluffysaurus wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

The idea of the Nordic as the supreme manifestation of human evolution was popular all over northern Europe including Victorian Britain (not just Germany)

Yep, proper C19th British racial/imperial thought went: “the Greeks were the foundation of everything worthwhile, the Romans spread Greekness around and added their own take, the English have inherited the Greco-Roman superiority to everyone else, Scots can tag along since they’re here, the Irish are beneath us though, as are all other Europeans... the Welsh? We don’t talk about the Welsh: they’re irrelevant.”

The notion of unified White or Nordic superiority is a twentieth century innovation in racist ideology: one which Victorian British racists would have found deeply insulting.

Borromeo
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12 Jun 2020, 9:38 am

Pepe wrote:

Borromeo wrote:

In my scientific analytical mind, the third girl in the old Nazi posters looks like a dude with long hair.

Does that turn you on? :scratch:

The insinuation was that she's ugly; don't project your preferences onto my negativity.

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Pepe
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12 Jun 2020, 9:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Pepe wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

So Nazi doctrine (which predates Hitler) draws on the nordic standard of beauty which was all the rage in the latter half of the 19th century with the elevation of the nordic superman in aristocratic circles throughout Europe as the epitome of the hierarchical world of colonial Europe - where "Toynbeeist" manifest destiny was supported by Darwin's survival of the fittest. This was echoed in the mythical characters played in Wagner's operas.

I am not looking for a fight.
I believe I have made that clear over my last few posts to you.

Let me just say,
There was no "Nazi doctrine" before the Nazi party.
The Nazi party perverted the philosophy of Nietzsche, with the help of his sister, after he died.
To suggest the German culture had inherent Nazi sympathies is offensive.

BTW,
One could say that certain qualities of English and American culture were also less than ideal.

There was definitely a "Nordicist" ideology in northern and central Europe, as well as north America, that had justified imperialism against those seen as lessers, and even advocated extermination. It was from this philosophy that eventually exploded in Germany when the German people had been humiliated and blamed for the First World War, forced to pay crushing reparations, lost territory, then found that their former wartime enemies made their new liberal democracy unworkable. It wasn't anything inherently evil about German culture, but because evil men pushing an evil political/social ideology were able to take advantage of their country's trouble.

In other words,
Human nature at play. :wink:

Pepe
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12 Jun 2020, 9:29 pm

Borromeo wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Borromeo wrote:

In my scientific analytical mind, the third girl in the old Nazi posters looks like a dude with long hair.

Does that turn you on? :scratch:

The insinuation was that she's ugly; don't project your preferences onto my negativity.

My only real passion/preference is to find humour, wherever it may be. :wink:

Pepe
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12 Jun 2020, 9:55 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Pepe wrote:

And:
Once again,
Before Hitler, there were no *Nazi* philosophies.
To suggest otherwise is emotive and misleading.

Well that's not quite true, if you read the history of the Nazi party its philosophical base was the creation of Anton Drexler and a number of far right movements including the German Fatherland party and where a number of pillars of Nazism was formed namely
- Germany was cheated by the treaty of Versailles
- Jews were responsible for Germany losing WWI
- Jews were inferior etc.
- Germans were the Aryan master race

Between 1919 - 1923 Hitler was an apparatchik and it was not till the beer hall "Putsch" that he became a prominent figure

Correction:
Before the Nazi Party,
There were no "Nazi Party" philosophies.

You seem to be ignoring the inherent objection I had with your post.
You seem to ignore the powerful emotiveness/connotation of the terms "Nazi Party" and "Nazi Philosophies".
You are also selectively ignoring the fact that there were other political parties in Germany before the Nazi Party took power.
The Communist Party was quite powerful, also, before Hitler stole control through political trickery.

And, as Kraichgauer pointed out,
All this disharmony was the direct result of The Versailles Treaty, which crippled Germany's economy and caused the profound social collapse,
Presumably the intended result of the treaty.

To suggest the German Culture was inherently corrupt is offensive, regardless of whether or not it was intentional.
I was simply enlightening you.
You aren't the first to be misinformed on this point, here on this website.

cyberdad
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13 Jun 2020, 12:31 am

Pepe wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Pepe wrote:

And:
Once again,
Before Hitler, there were no *Nazi* philosophies.
To suggest otherwise is emotive and misleading.

Yep I accept that. Hitler also flip flopped a little after WWI and may have flirted with communism. Certainly might explain them coming up with the name German National Socialist Party.

cyberdad
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13 Jun 2020, 12:45 am

fluffysaurus wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

The idea of the Nordic as the supreme manifestation of human evolution was popular all over northern Europe including Victorian Britain (not just Germany)

Utter bollocks! Victorian Britain was the centre of the world, we were hardly going to be ''oo look the German Principalities are finally managing to unite into a country, they must be superior''

I am not conflating British perceptions with those in Germany at the time. There was self-evidently a pan-European view of hierarchical superiority of the white man which was well ensconced in Victorian Britain.

Victorian morality was primarily determined by christianity and in the inherent spiritual superiority and the designation of heathen non-christians. There was also a strong sense of paternal bias against Asians and Africans who were perceived unable to be developed without British help but tribal groups were considered too uncivilised and primitive to rehabilitate.

The question was whether the Victorians shared the Nordic superman belief? I can't find any direct evidence but in the hierarchical European colonial mind I find it strange this germinated as an idea only among the germans?

Certainly many members of the British royal family and aristocracy seemed quite enamoured by Mr Hitler and his ideas.

Misslizard
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13 Jun 2020, 7:09 am

Queen Victoria’s grandson,The Duke of Coburg was employed by Hitler as a go between with the Royal family.
There’s always a rotten egg in every family.

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Pepe
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13 Jun 2020, 7:19 am

Wolfram87 wrote:

I seem to recall Hitler being into Lamarckian Evolution, which I can absolutely believe.

<facetious mode activated>

My understanding is that Hitler was self-conscious about his short neck,
Hence, the fascination with "Lamarckian Evolution". :mrgreen:

Pepe
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13 Jun 2020, 7:39 am

cyberdad wrote:

Certainly might explain them coming up with the name German National Socialist Party.

I have learned, from people on this website, that the Name "German National Socialist Party" was a means to an end.
It wasn't actually aligned to socialism.

I'm not disagreeing with you.
Just saying.

You may be right about his flirtation with communism.
Have no idea.
Haven't researched.
It may have been like Malcolm Turnbull approaching the Labor Party, but getting rejected and switching camps.

I don't think Hitler was worried that much about the politics, initially.
He was more concerned about his political ambition,
Once again, Like Malcolm Turnbull.

Apparently, his hatred for the influential Jewish Power group was real.
Had he been involved in left-wing politics, I wonder where that would have taken him.

Perhaps someone with greater enlightenment, on the subject, could, errr, enlighten us?

Pepe
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13 Jun 2020, 7:50 am

Misslizard wrote:

Queen Victoria’s grandson,The Duke of Coburg was employed by Hitler as a go between with the Royal family.
There’s always a rotten egg in every family.

The English monarchy has German blood.
They anglicised their name, as a result of WWI???
While the persecution of the Jew was an abomination, in the initial stages of Hitler's reign, it was focused on displacement, not extermination.
"Politics make strange bed-wetter." :mrgreen:

Hitler wanted an alliance with Britain,
A possible reason why he allowed the evacuation at Dunkirk.
Remember, Hess flew to Britain to try and make an alliance/peace.

The point I am trying to make is:
Things are not usually black and white".

cyberdad
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13 Jun 2020, 10:13 pm

Pepe wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Certainly might explain them coming up with the name German National Socialist Party.

Hilter's early life was not my area of expertise but I have read at least one biography that suggests narcissistic and homosexual tendencies and a passion water colour art. Infact had he been accepted into art school the entire history of the world might be different. So in that respect he might have been looking for a platform for his narcissism and the fledgling Nazis offered that platform.

cyberdad
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13 Jun 2020, 10:17 pm

Misslizard wrote:

Queen Victoria’s grandson,The Duke of Coburg was employed by Hitler as a go between with the Royal family.
There’s always a rotten egg in every family.

The future king of England Edward 8th was a friend and benefactor of Mr Hitler. Infact his niece Elizabeth (our current queen) was rather taken by the goose-step

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13 Jun 2020, 11:27 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Pepe wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Certainly might explain them coming up with the name German National Socialist Party.

He just wasn’t good enough and it made him bitter.So people he blamed for his failure had to go.
If he had real talent, we would be viewing his art in a museum and commenting, “It’s a Hitler, you can feel the rage..”

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