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Bill to make attacks on Trump supporters a Hate Crime

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cyberdad
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17 Jun 2020, 9:12 pm

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This guy is a black democrat and a Trump supporter?

I give up on American politics



goldfish21
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17 Jun 2020, 9:16 pm

Borromeo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
:lol: In ~100 years of trying the USA can’t make lunching black people for no reason a federal hate crime and trump supporters think that it should be a hate crime for treating them like a**holes for being a**holes? Wow. :lol:

Also:

No one is going to jail for being gay in Canada. Wtf is that about?

And the racial majority isn’t discriminated against or oppressed for their race like minorities are. Systemic racism & white privilege exist. Get over it. That’s why minorities of various groups are protected by civil & human rights laws.


I didn't say they were jailing Canadian homosexuals; if that were the case, you'd be in real trouble. I say that in Canada homophobic hate speech will get you locked up. That's called a lot of things but what I'd suggest is starting with reading comprehension.

When disagreeing with someone on any matter of right and wrong becomes illegal, then the government has mandated morality and thereby overstepped its bounds. The government, unlike Plato's "Republic," is very obviously NOT operated by philosophers, but by a narcissistic reality TV host in America, and a weak-willed career politician in Canada, and I could go on and on. The world has ended up with the leaders whom I fear it deserves.


There was a whole lot more nonsense about Catholicism and autism in your post worthy of dissecting and refuting, but instead I’ll just focus on this bit:

Borromeo wrote:
OK. Catholicism is a religion & a fairly old-fashioned one. We have laws saying homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. And we have a teaching that masturbation is intrinsically disordered. (Cue the triggered, horny MF'ers on W.P.) The second teaching is just considered bizarre. The first one will get you jailed in Canada. But a Catholic can believe all these without hurting anyone.


Did you mean to say we have laws against saying homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered? :?

Check your own post before you accuse someone of having reading comprehension difficulties. :roll:


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sly279
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18 Jun 2020, 4:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
Image

This guy is a black democrat and a Trump supporter?

I give up on American politics

There’s millions of black trump supports.
Black people don’t have to believe or vote democrat, Lincoln freed them remember?


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TheRobotLives
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18 Jun 2020, 4:28 am

cyberdad wrote:
Image

This guy is a black democrat and a Trump supporter?

I give up on American politics

That was my surprise.

A trap waiting to be sprung.


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cyberdad
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18 Jun 2020, 4:37 am

No my point is, he is black and a democrat...not just black



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18 Jun 2020, 4:49 am

cyberdad wrote:
No my point is, he is black and a democrat...not just black

Who wants to give poor black families school vouchers for better schools?

Not Democrats.

Trump calls school choice the civil rights issue of ‘all-time in this country’
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump- ... ghts-issue


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cyberdad
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18 Jun 2020, 4:53 am

Trump seems to be ramping up campaigning to black voters
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oters-2020

In contrast the democrats response seems to be echoed in the Janet Jackson song "What have you done for me lately"



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18 Jun 2020, 6:42 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Personally I don’t think political beliefs warrant the same protection as race, gender, nationality, sexual orientation, age, or disability. Political violence is wrong, but it isn’t “more wrong” than just beating someone up for the hell of it. It isn’t based on a person’s intrinsic characteristics.



IsabellaLinton wrote:

Definitions of Hate Crime:

"A hate crime (also known as a bias-motivated crime or bias crime) is a prejudice-motivated crime which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of their membership (or perceived membership) of a certain social group or race."


I'm very rules-based and I read definitions literally. ^ I assumed that "social group or race" meant that political ideology counts as a form of hate crime, the same way terrorism is politically-motivated and considered a form of hate crime.

Maybe I misread in the definition. Does "social group" imply a socio-cultural group, or can it also mean an ideological group like those strongly affiliated with a political party? I'm not sure what they mean by "social group".

While you did misread the definition, the bigger issue is that you are using the dictionary inappropriately.

The dictionary provides a generalised definition of “hate crime” intended to give a broad overview of the sorts of things that are described informally as “hate crime”. However, different jurisdictions have their own specific definitions. This includes defining which groups are protected - for example, they may prohibit crimes motivated by race, gender, or disability. They don’t pass one-line bills saying “no hate crime” and let the dictionary do the rest.

In practice, as I stated, there are some countries which protect political beliefs, but most do not. There are no countries which protect “social groups” as a whole.



magz
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18 Jun 2020, 7:22 am

The_Walrus wrote:
However, different jurisdictions have their own specific definitions. This includes defining which groups are protected - for example, they may prohibit crimes motivated by race, gender, or disability.

Is it only me or "prohibiting crimes motivated by race, gender, or disability" sounds like crimes from other motivations were allowed?
Sure they aren't but what's so special about these particular motivations?


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Mr Reynholm
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18 Jun 2020, 7:32 am

I don't like the idea simply because I don't think the catagory of "Hate Crime" should even exist. If one person commits a crime against another the crime is what it is. Hate crime suggests a stratification of society wherein crime against on person or group is more egregious than crime against another person or group. Although by todays standards this opinion is probably Wrongthink that would get me assaulted were I to voice it publicly.



magz
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18 Jun 2020, 8:26 am

I can understand making additional laws aimed at preventing modern "tribe wars" - we can't afford an explosion of inter-group violence in the current global world, the weapons are too powerful for it.
However, tribe war mentality is alarmingly common in political propaganda nowadays, so if my understanding of the purpose of special status of hate crime is correct, then adding political affiliation to the set would be absolutely logical.


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18 Jun 2020, 9:24 am

magz wrote:
... if my understanding of the purpose of special status of hate crime is correct, then adding political affiliation to the set would be absolutely logical.
If one political ideology, then why not other political ideologies, like Communism, Fascism, Naziism, and Zionism?


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Last edited by Fnord on 18 Jun 2020, 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

magz
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18 Jun 2020, 9:31 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
... if my understanding of the purpose of special status of hate crime is correct, then adding political affiliation to the set would be absolutely logical.
If political affiliation, then why not other political ideologies, like Communism, Fascism, Naziism and Zionism?

A valid question. Where do we draw the line?

[personal view]We draw the line at dehumanisation. Any ideology that dehumanizes people - even criminals - should either correct itself or get shunned. It's more an ethical/cultural issue than legal, though.[/personal view]


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Fnord
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18 Jun 2020, 9:34 am

magz wrote:
... Where do we draw the line?

[personal view]We draw the line at dehumanisation. Any ideology that dehumanizes people - even criminals - should either correct itself or get shunned. It's more an ethical/cultural issue than legal, though.[/personal view]
Thus, any ideology that separates "Us" from "Them" would be declared illegal ... or even a crime against Humanity.

Are you prepared for everyone to be treated exactly the same as everyone else?


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magz
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18 Jun 2020, 9:39 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
... Where do we draw the line?

[personal view]We draw the line at dehumanisation. Any ideology that dehumanizes people - even criminals - should either correct itself or get shunned. It's more an ethical/cultural issue than legal, though.[/personal view]
Thus, any ideology that separates "Us" from "Them" would be declared illegal ... or even a crime against Humanity.

Are you prepared for everyone to be treated exactly the same as everyone else?

I find the "us" vs "them" mentality one of the greatest dangers of current society, so yes, I find all such ideologies dangerous and requiring corrections.
However, I'm pragmatic in my attitude towards the law and I don't think banning such mentality would do any good. Thought policing is not an efficient tool in changing the world for the better.


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Fnord
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18 Jun 2020, 9:45 am

magz wrote:
... Thought policing is not an efficient tool in changing the world for the better.
Agreed.

Why police the thoughts of adults when you can indoctrinate people as children in "Goodthink"?

"I pledge allegiance to the flag..."

"Onward Christian soldiers..."

:roll:


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