Florida Mass Shooting

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Brictoria
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08 Sep 2021, 3:40 am

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cyberdad wrote:

I doubt any NRA types would insisting meth addicts should be allowed to carry loaded weapons.

An interesting extension to that would be to prevent anyone with a current\previous alcohol (or other drugs) related dependency from holding a driving licence (or operating vehicles requiring one), due to the potential they could have to kill others...

Considering the number of people injured or killed by drunk\drug affected drivers, that may actually be a good idea.

cyberdad
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08 Sep 2021, 3:46 am

Dox47 wrote:

This is why we have a Constitution, to stop dumb ideas like this; you don't lose your rights because you have a condition, all of those disorders have spectrums of intensity, with the vast majority of the people suffering from them being no threat to anyone..

Have amendments in the US constitution taken into account whether these disorders are spectrum? Why would the public object to getting a psychiatric clean bill of health before getting their hands on a firearm?

Dox47
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08 Sep 2021, 3:54 am

cyberdad wrote:

Nope, and because it's none of your business.

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Dox47
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08 Sep 2021, 3:57 am

Brictoria wrote:

Off Topic

There's actually a much cleaner case to be made against alcohol, as it's far more destructive than most illegal drugs and only widely available essentially through grandfathering, but we did try restricting it once, it didn't work very well. I've also known a few chronic alcoholics who haven't had licenses in years, the tricks they'd use to get clean plates in other people's names to still drive were almost impressive.

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cyberdad
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08 Sep 2021, 4:08 am

Dox47 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Nope, and because it's none of your business.

So its a privacy issue? my suggestion is simple. You wanna gun, demonstrate you aren't a risk.

DW_a_mom
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08 Sep 2021, 4:28 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

He he he well I think you know that emotionally I'd get rid of all guns if I could, so I'm always going to be reluctant about accepting the pragmatic realities.

I've always found that such a strange reaction, since absent guns we'd just be killing each other with something else, potentially something more unpleasant and less egalitarian. I'm always tempted to make the comparison to the medieval church trying to ban the crossbow as being inhumane in warfare, but being just fine with the traditional bows, swords, maces, spears, etc of the era. The more illuminating historical example to me is actually the Japanese, where they banned firearms and sealed off the nation explicitly because guns put the peasantry on par with the Samurai and thus threatened their entire feudal hierarchy, which has obvious modern parallels.

yeah, we've had that conversation. I feel queasy thinking about all of it, so good thing I am pragmatic about it. I just don't get violence.

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Dox47
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08 Sep 2021, 4:56 am

cyberdad wrote:

So its a privacy issue? my suggestion is simple. You wanna gun, demonstrate you aren't a risk.

That's not how enumerated rights work.

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Dox47
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08 Sep 2021, 5:04 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

I just don't get violence.

It cuts through a lot of BS. I have quite odd philosophical thoughts about power generally, the power that comes from money or the power that comes from having your orders followed, but at the end of the day the only truly reliable power is your ability to dish out violence more effectively than others. Embarrassingly enough, I think there was a Game of Thrones monologue that hit some similar points, something about a King, a Bishop, and a mercenary with a sword being locked in a room and who had the real power in that situation. Guns are almost a cheat in that you don't have to be physically powerful to use them effectively (though it helps, as does practice and training), so you can devote your life to pursuits other than being a professional warrior of some sort and still be able to bring enough potential violence to the table to be able to protect yourself, or keep others from controlling you. With a gun in my hand, no person on Earth can make me do anything, all they can do is try and kill me when I refuse to be controlled, at great risk to themself, and that's worth a lot to me.

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DW_a_mom
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08 Sep 2021, 5:45 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

I just don't get violence.

I’ve lived my adult life with no one making me do a single thing but I’ve never had to wield a weapon. I definitely like to get my way. I’m persistent and stubborn, I’ll work hard to sell and persuade, or to find the middle ground, but I also not afraid to use the tool known as walking away.

Society makes it little more difficult for men to choose to walk away, though, I suspect, depending on the situation. Still, my husband and son are pretty good at walking away, too.

The odds of facing someone determined to physically exert their control is pretty low in today’s world. Walking away is an option if selling, persuading and looking for middle ground aren’t working.

You and I are very different, but what we’ve both done is figured out what works for us, what allows us to live true to ourselves and stand up for ourselves. Interesting how totally opposite our approaches are. I like mine better, but I almost always like my approach better. It’s part of me being me.

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Mr Reynholm
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08 Sep 2021, 8:38 am

Dox47 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Nope, and because it's none of your business.

The problem is in the definition of what a mental disorder is. Nowadays not liking someones politics is considered a mental disorder by some. So we can see where this goes.

Brictoria
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08 Sep 2021, 9:38 am

Mr Reynholm wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Nope, and because it's none of your business.

The problem is in the definition of what a mental disorder is. Nowadays not liking someones politics is considered a mental disorder by some. So we can see where this goes.

It's disappointing to see that there are people in favor of the removal of a presumption of innocence, who seemingly feel that everyone is "guilty", and so need to prove they are not, rather than evidence needing to be provided to confirm their "guilt"... It would be curious how many innocent people they feel should be punished to ensure that all the "guilty" are as well, as opposed to the more common question of how many "guilty" people should be able to avoid penalty in order to ensure no innocent person is to be punished.

Thankfully, such people are a minority.

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08 Sep 2021, 3:27 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

I do all of that too, but I have an ace in the hole if all of those methods fail and someone still insists, it's simply another option to have as a last resort. It's a yes and vs a yes but, there's nothing stopping me from using all of the same techniques an unarmed person might to avoid conflict or prevent myself from getting into a bad situation, and I also have another option that they do not, at virtually no cost to myself save an uncomfortable chunk of metal in my waistband or pocket. I actually find the discomfort of wearing a gun to be useful in and of itself, as you'll never forget you have one on, and the weight and feel of it digging into your hip is a constant reminder to look around and pay attention, and that change in body language alone is discouraging to many would be criminals (they've done studies, body language plays a huge role in victim selection).

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DW_a_mom
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08 Sep 2021, 4:08 pm

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

I suppose there is a “practice what I preach” element involved for me, as well as “be the change you want to see.” A back up plan would be contraindicated, as if I don’t have faith in my own priorities.

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Dox47
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08 Sep 2021, 4:20 pm

Brictoria wrote:

Yeah, I don't normally like the "I can't believe someone on an AS support site would propose targeting people with mental disorders" line of argument, but it seems appropriate here.

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Dox47
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08 Sep 2021, 4:21 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

What I hear is that you have one less exit strategy than I do.

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Jakki
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08 Sep 2021, 5:13 pm

As with many Aspies , have found that being out in public around areas or businesses that might have be Subject to these kind of bad situations . i become aware of other people around me. It is difficult not to.
Usually have little support if , i am going out . Grocery shopping , whatever . So if a situation looks potentially troublesome or threatening . Am already considering how to avoid these type of situations . Anything from out of control children , to Persons that might potentially be out of control.
When you are part of a vulnerable part of the population. You get Used to doing this.
The nice thing about this is that , i am always very appreciative , even surprised at people being nice in public .
A ExMarine that i met at one time . Taught me a phrase : ( Situational Awareness) . So i thought that was a nice way to explain it .

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