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magz
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27 Feb 2022, 7:43 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The Ukrainians are offering an heroic resistance.

I believe, should Putin deign to march beyond Ukraine, that he will lose, and be forced to withdraw. I would bet that some of his soldiers are not really into what Putin is doing.

Hard to verify such informations right now but
Quote:
Ukrainian Ambassador to the U.S. Oksana Markarova said Thursday that a platoon of Russian soldiers surrendered to the Ukrainian military, saying they "didn't know that they were brought to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians."
https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... -ukrainian

It is Putin's own war, I'm sure most Russians don't want it, too.


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kraftiekortie
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27 Feb 2022, 7:51 am

I read this, too.

Frankly, the Russians didn’t do too well in Afghanistan, either.



magz
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27 Feb 2022, 7:58 am

They're bleeding and they have only Putin to blame. I hope they overthrow him.


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kraftiekortie
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27 Feb 2022, 8:02 am

There is certainly a strong protest movement there….I hope it expands from Moscow and St. Petersburg.



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27 Feb 2022, 9:20 am

magz wrote:
Also, they wear different hairstyles. And have different native languages. And I'm sure Putin does not intend to massacre Jews. And Hitler was never in KGB :P

No one is claiming they are the same. The world is not the same. But the tactics of annexations followed by a bitzkrieg has been used previously in this part of the world.


I'm sure most of us would have a different perspective if he was practically on our doorstep.



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27 Feb 2022, 9:23 am

magz wrote:
They're bleeding and they have only Putin to blame. I hope they overthrow him.


I heard some US politician said back in the day they wanted the war with Afghanistan to "bleed Russia white"



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27 Feb 2022, 7:05 pm

magz wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
The Ukrainians are offering an heroic resistance.

I believe, should Putin deign to march beyond Ukraine, that he will lose, and be forced to withdraw. I would bet that some of his soldiers are not really into what Putin is doing.

Hard to verify such informations right now but
Quote:
Ukrainian Ambassador to the U.S. Oksana Markarova said Thursday that a platoon of Russian soldiers surrendered to the Ukrainian military, saying they "didn't know that they were brought to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians."
https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... -ukrainian

It is Putin's own war, I'm sure most Russians don't want it, too.


Especially now with the sanctions. 8)



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27 Feb 2022, 7:09 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There is certainly a strong protest movement there….I hope it expands from Moscow and St. Petersburg.


I hope you are right, but I haven't seen it.
With the new sanctions biting, maybe, but there is still the ghost of stalin around, haunting those who long for the days of the soviet empire.



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27 Feb 2022, 7:11 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
magz wrote:
Also, they wear different hairstyles. And have different native languages. And I'm sure Putin does not intend to massacre Jews. And Hitler was never in KGB :P

No one is claiming they are the same. The world is not the same. But the tactics of annexations followed by a bitzkrieg has been used previously in this part of the world.


I'm sure most of us would have a different perspective if he was practically on our doorstep.


Agreed. 8)



kitesandtrainsandcats
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27 Feb 2022, 7:14 pm

cyberdad wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ...


Ah, the Daily Mail ...
which brings to mind ...


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27 Feb 2022, 10:00 pm

cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
"Friends" is an abuse on semantics in this context, unless you consider a rapist and his victim "lovers".


I wouldn't know, I came to an amazing conclusion I have never had a friend. I have had hundreds of acquaintances. Perhaps Putin would like to get acquainted with Poland?

I came to that conclusion too, sometime in my early 20s. When I read Tony Attwood's book on Asperger's, specifically the chapter dealing with relationships and friendship it led to my re-examination of the concept. I found it to be... foreign? Lots of acquaintances that never stayed in my life for long. Always interest or activity-based.



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28 Feb 2022, 12:17 am

r00tb33r wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
"Friends" is an abuse on semantics in this context, unless you consider a rapist and his victim "lovers".


I wouldn't know, I came to an amazing conclusion I have never had a friend. I have had hundreds of acquaintances. Perhaps Putin would like to get acquainted with Poland?

I came to that conclusion too, sometime in my early 20s. When I read Tony Attwood's book on Asperger's, specifically the chapter dealing with relationships and friendship it led to my re-examination of the concept. I found it to be... foreign? Lots of acquaintances that never stayed in my life for long. Always interest or activity-based.


Yeah, that actually more of us out there than we realise.

I guess another term Putin could have used was "comrade", he's certainly now comrades with the Belorussians



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28 Feb 2022, 12:49 am

So why is Putin able to get along with Belarus and not Ukraine?



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28 Feb 2022, 12:55 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
So why is Putin able to get along with Belarus and not Ukraine?


Belorus = little Russia = orthodox christian so culturally same

Ukraine = catholic



magz
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28 Feb 2022, 1:33 am

cyberdad wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
So why is Putin able to get along with Belarus and not Ukraine?


Belorus = little Russia = orthodox christian so culturally same

Ukraine = catholic

Wrong and wrong. Ukraine is traditionally Orthodox (partially Greek Catholic, which is basically Western-allied Orthodox) and it's Ukraine called "Little Russia" in panrussian narrative. Belarus is "White Russia".

Ukrainians have stronger national identity and they have tasted - even if flawed - democracy, while Belarussians have been living under the autocrat Lukashenko.

But what is the most important - to make them their "allies", Putin needs to get under his foot just Lukashenko in Belarus but the whole nation in Ukraine. The former is way easier.

Though, based on the protests last year in Belarus, this may be changing against Putin.


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28 Feb 2022, 3:35 am

The courage of the Ukrainian people has changed things enormously.
Few in the west would have expected this tenacity.