CCP Lied About Covid Virus. Was COVID Created in a Lab?

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Pepe
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03 Mar 2023, 6:48 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
1. The Energy Department" report said they had "low confidence" it was likely a lab leak. That is not vindication.
2. Let's go back to 2020, shall we? If I just suggested at that time it was a lab leak people would say to me something like "Who is saying that?" Or "only unreliable conspiracy theory crank sources from the bowels of the internet say that". That was because there were no "reliable sources" saying that. Just like it is impossible to find "reliable sources" suggesting China deliberately released it. I am seeing the same condescending certainty by current lab leak theorists that I noticed from "it came from bats in the wet market" theorists from 2020-2022.

My guesses for the lack of people entertaining even thinking about a deliberate release are.
1. While the CCP is accepted as quite evil despite history people in general do not think others can be that evil.
2. If was proven to be a deliberate release we would have to do something about it. The options for our reactions and how the C.C.P. would react to our reactions are just too horrible to think about.

#2 above is indeed a good reason why we should not be flinging such a serious accusation (deliberate lab leak) without good evidence, apart from the general principle of "innocent until proven guilty."


I don't believe ANYONE here has suggested the lab leak was deliberate.
Sorry to harp on about it, but I have been misrepresented SO many times this last week in various threads. 8O



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03 Mar 2023, 5:46 pm

Quote:
The Department of Energy may have only “low confidence” in its assessment that COVID-19 likely originated in a lab, but Republicans long criticized for their openness to the idea are still celebrating the agency’s conclusion—so much so, in fact, that you might think the report was accompanied by a little vial labeled “Nov. 2019 Wuhan COVID Recipe—Do Not Remove!”

“There was always enormous evidence that the Wuhan coronavirus leaked from the Wuhan lab,” asserted former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, “I’m glad the Department of Energy recognizes this reality.” Sen. Tom Cotton—previously excoriated as a conspiracy theorist for voicing his belief that the virus originated in a lab—also took a victory lap. “The only conspiracy back in the early part of 2020 was a conspiracy of silence,” he told Fox News.


https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/morn ... Microscope



ASPartOfMe
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03 Mar 2023, 11:18 pm

Pepe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:

It is me who is saying that a deliberate release is a possibility.

I wasn't sure where you were coming from.


ASPartOfMe wrote:
1. The Energy Department" report said they had "low confidence" it was likely a lab leak. That is not vindication.


The FBI recently (last few days) said they believed the lab leak was "Probable", btw.

But for some reason the "vindicated" lab leak theorists are mostly focusing on the Energy Department report.


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03 Mar 2023, 11:39 pm

Pepe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
1. The Energy Department" report said they had "low confidence" it was likely a lab leak. That is not vindication.
2. Let's go back to 2020, shall we? If I just suggested at that time it was a lab leak people would say to me something like "Who is saying that?" Or "only unreliable conspiracy theory crank sources from the bowels of the internet say that". That was because there were no "reliable sources" saying that. Just like it is impossible to find "reliable sources" suggesting China deliberately released it. I am seeing the same condescending certainty by current lab leak theorists that I noticed from "it came from bats in the wet market" theorists from 2020-2022.

My guesses for the lack of people entertaining even thinking about a deliberate release are.
1. While the CCP is accepted as quite evil despite history people in general do not think others can be that evil.
2. If was proven to be a deliberate release we would have to do something about it. The options for our reactions and how the C.C.P. would react to our reactions are just too horrible to think about.

#2 above is indeed a good reason why we should not be flinging such a serious accusation (deliberate lab leak) without good evidence, apart from the general principle of "innocent until proven guilty."


I don't believe ANYONE here has suggested the lab leak was deliberate.
Sorry to harp on about it, but I have been misrepresented SO many times this last week in various threads. 8O


I said it was a plausible possibility that C.C.P. did that to their own people based on past and current history. That was not an accusation but it damn sure was a suggestion. Experts should not bury their heads in the sand because their investigations might turn up something too horrible to think about. All possibilities of why this happened to need to be looked at. The C.C.P. are not American citizens, innocent until proven doesn't apply.


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04 Mar 2023, 11:38 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
1. The Energy Department" report said they had "low confidence" it was likely a lab leak. That is not vindication.
2. Let's go back to 2020, shall we? If I just suggested at that time it was a lab leak people would say to me something like "Who is saying that?" Or "only unreliable conspiracy theory crank sources from the bowels of the internet say that". That was because there were no "reliable sources" saying that. Just like it is impossible to find "reliable sources" suggesting China deliberately released it. I am seeing the same condescending certainty by current lab leak theorists that I noticed from "it came from bats in the wet market" theorists from 2020-2022.

My guesses for the lack of people entertaining even thinking about a deliberate release are.
1. While the CCP is accepted as quite evil despite history people in general do not think others can be that evil.
2. If was proven to be a deliberate release we would have to do something about it. The options for our reactions and how the C.C.P. would react to our reactions are just too horrible to think about.

#2 above is indeed a good reason why we should not be flinging such a serious accusation (deliberate lab leak) without good evidence, apart from the general principle of "innocent until proven guilty."


I don't believe ANYONE here has suggested the lab leak was deliberate.
Sorry to harp on about it, but I have been misrepresented SO many times this last week in various threads. 8O


I said it was a plausible possibility that C.C.P. did that to their own people based on past and current history. That was not an accusation but it damn sure was a suggestion. Experts should not bury their heads in the sand because their investigations might turn up something too horrible to think about. All possibilities of why this happened to need to be looked at. The C.C.P. are not American citizens, innocent until proven doesn't apply.


I was unsure if you were being sarcastic/ironic, originally.

You may recall, because that despicable Orange Man suggested it was the CCP that created the virus, the leftist narrative was altered to disagree.
"Anything/k Trump bad."
Dirty politics entered the fray once again.

You didn't think I would forget that, did you?
I have a long memory, at times. 8)



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05 Mar 2023, 1:07 pm

Pepe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
1. The Energy Department" report said they had "low confidence" it was likely a lab leak. That is not vindication.
2. Let's go back to 2020, shall we? If I just suggested at that time it was a lab leak people would say to me something like "Who is saying that?" Or "only unreliable conspiracy theory crank sources from the bowels of the internet say that". That was because there were no "reliable sources" saying that. Just like it is impossible to find "reliable sources" suggesting China deliberately released it. I am seeing the same condescending certainty by current lab leak theorists that I noticed from "it came from bats in the wet market" theorists from 2020-2022.

My guesses for the lack of people entertaining even thinking about a deliberate release are.
1. While the CCP is accepted as quite evil despite history people in general do not think others can be that evil.
2. If was proven to be a deliberate release we would have to do something about it. The options for our reactions and how the C.C.P. would react to our reactions are just too horrible to think about.

#2 above is indeed a good reason why we should not be flinging such a serious accusation (deliberate lab leak) without good evidence, apart from the general principle of "innocent until proven guilty."


I don't believe ANYONE here has suggested the lab leak was deliberate.
Sorry to harp on about it, but I have been misrepresented SO many times this last week in various threads. 8O


I said it was a plausible possibility that C.C.P. did that to their own people based on past and current history. That was not an accusation but it damn sure was a suggestion. Experts should not bury their heads in the sand because their investigations might turn up something too horrible to think about. All possibilities of why this happened to need to be looked at. The C.C.P. are not American citizens, innocent until proven doesn't apply.


I was unsure if you were being sarcastic/ironic, originally.

You may recall, because that despicable Orange Man suggested it was the CCP that created the virus, the leftist narrative was altered to disagree.
"Anything/k Trump bad."
Dirty politics entered the fray once again.

You didn't think I would forget that, did you?
I have a long memory, at times. 8)

I had forgotten that Trump suggested it first but I never thought I was the first one ever to suggest it. I did not forget that Trump and the reaction to him shut off debate on COVID and a lot else.

We both are very anti woke and cancel culture. Fact is the anti-woke movement at least here in America has been pretty much hijacked. The censorious right has made arguing against wokeism much, much, much more difficult if not impossible. It can be fairly said that censorious Right wing define the anti woke movement in America now. The convenient ways to deal with this is to hibernate, or say the right wing is worse and wokeism is the price to pay for the “greater good”.

Similarly Trump made arguing against the lab leak theory much more difficult, never mind the deliberate release theory. The odds against mainstreaming of the lab leak theory seemed pretty grim, but now it is in the mainstream and that is because the theory’s proponents did not give up.

Despite the long odds the lab leak theory proponents had a big advantage deliberate release theorists do not have. One of the political tribes agreed with it. They had media that kept on pushing. Even on Bill Mahar’s show as non tribal is gets the deliberate leak theory was mentioned by a progressive guest and dismissed in one sentence. In other words the chances of the deliberate release theory gaining traction is near zero. Near zero is the lesser of two evils then zero which are the odds if we give up.

If it is possible we need to find out where COVID started. We need it so we can find ways to lesson the chances of it happening again, to meet out justice if warranted, and for history.


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05 Mar 2023, 1:11 pm

This Is now a huge possibility considering all the coincidences.



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05 Mar 2023, 1:13 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The C.C.P. are not American citizens, innocent until proven doesn't apply.


Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply because no criminal penalties can be imposed.

That doesn't mean guilt doesn't need to be sufficiently proven to make the hypothesis credible. An unproven charge is just an accusation.


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05 Mar 2023, 1:35 pm

What they are certainly guilty of is obscuring information - though motives for this can be various.

I think it is a lesson that we need mustn't loosen our standards (i.e. of transparency) when outsourcing.


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05 Mar 2023, 1:58 pm

magz wrote:
What they are certainly guilty of is obscuring information - though motives for this can be various.

I think it is a lesson that we need mustn't loosen our standards (i.e. of transparency) when outsourcing.


Agreed on both points.

PRC has more than one motive to obscure the truth. Concealing the appearance of incompetence is almost certainly among them and they have many parties they would feel a need to conceal that appearance from.

Opacity is the friend of a cover-up, the less transparency the better for covering something up, but the worse for convincing other parties that the truth is being told. Of course, one unintended (but predictable) downside to attempting a cover-up is that guano will be spread as an alternative to the concealed reality and at some point addressing the guano will force the cover-up to be exposed.


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05 Mar 2023, 10:29 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Despite the long odds the lab leak theory proponents had a big advantage deliberate release theorists do not have. One of the political tribes agreed with it. They had media that kept on pushing.


Well, hyperpartisan politics doesn't affect me.
Research, credible sources, and critical thinking do.



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05 Mar 2023, 10:32 pm

magz wrote:
What they are certainly guilty of is obscuring information - though motives for this can be various.

I think it is a lesson that we need mustn't loosen our standards (i.e. of transparency) when outsourcing.


"True dat."

I still have a bigger post count than you, btw.



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07 Mar 2023, 12:20 am

Quote:
CNN boss told staff to avoid reporting ‘Trump’ lab leak theory
4 hours ago

CNN’s former CEO Jeff Zucker told network staff to avoid touching the lab leak theory in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic because it was a “Trump talking point”, according to Fox News.


https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/c ... erallPos=7



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07 Mar 2023, 3:22 am

Fauci ‘Prompted’ Scientific Paper Purporting to Debunk Covid Lab-Leak Theory, Emails Show

Quote:
Dr. Fauci commissioned a scientific study that purported to debunk the hypothesis that Covid escaped from a laboratory in Wuhan, China, according to emails released by House Republicans.

On Sunday, the GOP-led House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic revealed that the nation’s leading epidemiologist in February 2020 directed and approved a paper titled, “The Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2,” which he later cited to cast the lab-leak theory as a myth.

“New evidence released by the Select Subcommittee today suggests that Dr. Fauci ‘prompted’ the drafting of a publication that would ‘disprove’ the lab leak theory, the authors of this paper skewed available evidence to achieve that goal, and Dr. Jeremy Farrar went uncredited despite significant involvement,” a memo from the committee read.

On February 1, 2020, Fauci, then director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Dr. Francis Collins, then director of the National Institutes of Health, held a call with several scientists to discuss the origins of the virus. A group of evolutionary virologists on the call informed Fauci and Collins that Covid may have stemmed from a lab accident and may have been genetically engineered, according to the memo.

Three days later, four of the experts who attended that meeting drafted a research document, which was forwarded to Fauci upon completion for editing and approval. The paper, later published in Nature Medicine, argued that Covid had “mutations” that supported the explanation that it had been transmitted to humans from animals.

One of the four authors, Dr. Kristin Andersen, admits in a cover email sent to Nature that Fauci “prompted” the paper’s drafting in order to “disprove” the lab-leak theory.

“There has been a lot of speculation, fear-mongering, and conspiracies put forward in this space. [This paper was] Prompted by Jeremy Farrah [sic], Tony Fauci, and Francis Collins,” Andersen wrote in the email, released Sunday by the House committee.

In April, 2020, Fauci addressed reporters at a White House press conference alongside former president Trump, pointing to the paper as justification for his belief that the lab-leak theory was a far-fetched conspiracy. Fauci did not acknowledge his own role in commissioning the paper and feigned ignorance as to the identities of its authors.

“There was a study recently where a group of highly qualified evolutionary virologists looked at the sequences … in bats as they evolve and the mutations that it took to get to the point where it is now is totally consistent with a jump of a species from an animal to a human,” Fauci said at the time.

“So, the paper will be available. I don’t have the authors right now, but we can make it available to you,” he said.

Fauci told National Geographic a month later that Covid “could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated.”

Flash forward to November 2022, when Fauci, who had announced his retirement from government, said on CBS’s Face the Nation that he remained convinced that the virus emerged naturally, claiming the evidence backing that theory was “quite strong.” During that media appearance, Fauci lectured that officials must ensure that future probes into Covid’s source are not politically motivated


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07 Mar 2023, 10:54 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
[url=https://news.yahoo.com/fauci-prompted-scientific-paper-purporting-210709941.html]

How is that possible? :scratch:
He is such an "honourable" man. 8O

If you couldn't tell, this was sarcasm. :mrgreen:


ASPartOfMe wrote:
Flash forward to November 2022, when Fauci, who had announced his retirement from government, said on CBS’s Face the Nation that he remained convinced that the virus emerged naturally, claiming the evidence backing that theory was “quite strong.” During that media appearance, Fauci lectured that officials must ensure that future probes into Covid’s source are not politically motivated


8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Wot unmitigated "Hootspa".
He must have some VERY powerful friends. 8O :mrgreen:



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10 Mar 2023, 5:37 pm

House votes 419-0 to declassify intelligence on COVID-19 origins, sending bill to Biden's desk

Quote:
The House voted unanimously Friday on a bill ordering the declassification of intelligence about the origins of COVID-19 in China, sending the bill to President Biden's desk.

The bill, which already passed the Senate, would require Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines to declassify any information about links between the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic and the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the controversial viral research laboratory in the city where the SARS-CoV-2 virus first emerged. The vote in the House was 419 to 0.

White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre did not directly answer whether the president would sign the legislation, saying, "We're taking a look at the bill."

The Senate passed the GOP-crafted bill by unanimous consent last week. The bill was introduced by GOP Sens. Josh Hawley and Mike Braun.

The issue of the origin of the coronavirus has become fiercely politicized on Capitol Hill, with many Republicans using the increased consideration of the lab leak theory to criticize Dr. Anthony Fauci, the former director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, for his support of the theory that the virus emerged in a Wuhan market where live animals were sold.

"Now the American people will be able to see what their government knows about COVID origins — and those who lied about it can be held accountable," Hawley tweeted after the bill passed Friday. "Next stop for my COVID origins bill, Joe Biden's desk. Sign it."

Democrats also expressed support for releasing information related to origins of the leak, as evidenced by their lack of objections in the House and Senate.

"Understanding the root causes of the COVID-19 pandemic is important to help prevent a future pandemic," Democratic Rep. Raul Ruiz, a doctor and ranking member of the Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic, said in a statement after the bill's passage.


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