Republicans asks Universities to ban all teaching of racism

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cyberdad
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26 Apr 2023, 8:32 pm

Pepe wrote:
May I suggest you read: The "Dark Emu" controversy
January 07, 2022 ;)

http://www.iankeese.com.au/journal-entr ... ontroversy


And the thesis put forward has been rejected. I am not opposed to ideas being proposed but the proponents needs to accept their work will be subject to peer scrutiny.

Geoffrey Blainey was a historian but spoke about social psychology (a subject he was not qualified to comment on) in response to Asian migration claiming (based on past history) Australians weren't ready. Given we are now swamped with Asian migrants (to borrow Pauline Hanson's language) and the country hasn't collapsed it suggest Blainey's predictions have not come true.

Keith Windschuttle (a former editor of Quadrant) made bizarre claims that there was never a genocide of aboriginal people in Tasmania. He cherry picked sources to bolster his claims. His books have been demonstrated to be fabricated to serve some ulterior purpose.



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26 Apr 2023, 8:36 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
May I suggest you read: The "Dark Emu" controversy
January 07, 2022 ;)

http://www.iankeese.com.au/journal-entr ... ontroversy


And the thesis put forward has been rejected. I am not opposed to ideas being proposed but the proponents needs to accept their work will be subject to peer scrutiny.

Geoffrey Blainey was a historian but spoke about social psychology (a subject he was not qualified to comment on) in response to Asian migration claiming (based on past history) Australians weren't ready. Given we are now swamped with Asian migrants (to borrow Pauline Hanson's language) and the country hasn't collapsed it suggest Blainey's predictions have not come true.

Keith Windschuttle (a former editor of Quadrant) made bizarre claims that there was never a genocide of aboriginal people in Tasmania. He cherry picked sources to bolster his claims. His books have been demonstrated to be fabricated to serve some ulterior purpose.


There has been "cherry picking" on both sides, Dr Jekyll.
Nice to see you back, btw. :mrgreen:



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26 Apr 2023, 8:47 pm

Pepe wrote:
Hitler wanted to strip Jews of most of their wealth and export them in the beginning, at least.
.


If you read Mein Kampf I think Hitler's megalomania was he always planned a battle against global jewry. The Nazis never made any overtures to other countries to take their Jewish population and initial plans to ship Jews to Madagascar was only mean't as a "holding pen".

The window of opportunity for German jews to initially escape was not due to the beneficence of the German people, it was because it was to take the Nazis several years for their tentacles to take over the infrastructure of government and civil service.

The influential Turner diaries (followed by all far right groups) are based on Nazi doctrine where the only place where non-white people (including Jews) would exist is in human zoos or museums.

The proof was how much resources the Nazis wasted in hunting out and killing Jews in occupied western and eastern Europe and Russia. This took precedence over winning the war as even when German civilians were surrendering, Nazi officers were still rounding up and murdering Jews literally minutes before their camps were overrun by the allies. That's some mighty stiff indoctrination.



cyberdad
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26 Apr 2023, 8:50 pm

Pepe wrote:
There has been "cherry picking" on both sides, Dr Jekyll.
Nice to see you back, btw. :mrgreen:


I acknowledge that, Dark Emu isn't part of school curriculum because it has holes. That's what peer review is for.



Persephone29
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26 Apr 2023, 9:02 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
This is a genuine question:

When I see lessons about the Holocaust they are presented as a single moment in time. WWII, Concentration Camps, roughly 6 Million Jews wiped out of existence, their wealth stolen is easily the greatest example of racism to ever exist. The cumulative damage of that time period doesn't seem to warrant more than a blip in our world history lessons. Why?

Jews are still experiencing anti-semitism in the US and one of the ring leaders of Black anti-semitism is Lewis Farrakhan, following his example are people like Kanye West. Yet, we spend huge amounts of time focusing on racism towards blacks as if it's the only racism to ever exist in the US. And if we don't present it over and over again, all the time, we're all racists.

I don't get it. This is economically driven, it's about more than just human rights violations. It is somehow more beneficial to highlight racism towards black individuals above all others and I don't know why else except money.


I think one major reason is that the Holocaust happened in Europe not in America.

Interesting you mentioned Kanye. It took a celebrity to get a lot of attention paid to anti semitism particularly anti-semitism coming out of the black community. I think historically the combination of most Jews being liberal and Jewish organizations giving slack to another group that has been victimized by racism is a factor.


Nuh-huh; that ain’t it. It’s more that the victors write the history books, IMO.

North American settlers murdered nearly 100,000,000 Indigenous people in a near complete genocide over 150-200 years. Hell, that was hitler’s inspiration for his genocidal aspirations.

Highly unlikely history books are going to mention much about either in North America as it’s not the narrative they want their children to believe. Probably have a better chance of learning American and European history in African or Asian classrooms.



I realize you said North America, I hope you've included Canada. They're right up there with the US in the past and the present. So many 'unsolved' disappearances on both sides of the border.


:?

Geography education as lacking as history in the USA? :?

:?

Of course North America includes Canada. Technically there are 23 countries in North America, but the main two I'm referencing are Canada and the USA where most of these atrocities occurred.



Just making sure!


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26 Apr 2023, 9:05 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
How successful do you think they will be in erasing black history? Each February our class spends one month highlighting black history, it is a core part of the curriculum and standards. During that month we devote time to slavery, heroes, segregation and the sit-ins, bus boycotts, school integration, Ruby Bridges and the little children who were brave, lost their lives. I create a door devoted to black history, it stays up the entire month of February.
.


I am not sure what the GOP's endgame is? but I am aware that if it becomes law then schools and colleges will have to review curriculum content (state by state?) to ensure books don't breach new laws. Black history month might (for example) focus on individual famous black people rather than social/civil strife that was present as a backdrop at the time.

In Australia we have an intellectual conflict in universities called the "History wars" and those opposed to highlighting our own racist past use the term "black armband" version of history (In Australia we wear black armbands in mourning for somebody famous who died). There has been attempts by conservative politicians to interfere in Australian education curriculum for years. Back in the 1990s there was the famous debates (that spearheaded the history wars) between progressive historian Prof Manning Clarke and his arch nemesis (also in Melbourne University) Prof Geoffrey Blainey and his sycophant (an ex-academic from Adelaide named Keith Windschuttle) the latter two tried very hard to "white-wash" Australian history and they were in the news regularly.



You reference CRT a lot, as if it's the only way black history can be kept alive. The educators are pretty passionate about Black History Month in the US, we do a good job.


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26 Apr 2023, 9:08 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
This won't find any fans here, but many blacks are Christians and as such are given the same words to live by: I will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. Maybe it's bad to hate Jews in all worlds; the physical and the spiritual?


Antisemitism continues to be pretty common among Christians of all racial backgrounds. Clearly many Christians have forgotten that their faith is an expansion pack.


Agreed, after all I believe both Hitler and Mel Gibson are/were Christian. It makes absolutely no sense to go off on an entire race of people as the reason Christ was crucified, when without Christ's sacrifice there would be no salvation for Christians. Some people just want to hate...


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26 Apr 2023, 9:27 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
This is a genuine question:

When I see lessons about the Holocaust they are presented as a single moment in time. WWII, Concentration Camps, roughly 6 Million Jews wiped out of existence, their wealth stolen is easily the greatest example of racism to ever exist. The cumulative damage of that time period doesn't seem to warrant more than a blip in our world history lessons. Why?

Jews are still experiencing anti-semitism in the US and one of the ring leaders of Black anti-semitism is Lewis Farrakhan, following his example are people like Kanye West. Yet, we spend huge amounts of time focusing on racism towards blacks as if it's the only racism to ever exist in the US. And if we don't present it over and over again, all the time, we're all racists.

I don't get it. This is economically driven, it's about more than just human rights violations. It is somehow more beneficial to highlight racism towards black individuals above all others and I don't know why else except money.

You answered your own question.

The reason that the "Holocaust" is taught as a brief event is because thats what it was. The whole death camp system only existed for about four years in the early 1940s. The whole Nazi regime only existed for 12 years.

The transatlantic African slave trade began before the US was founded, and even before America was discovered by Columbus (started in circa 1450 by the Portugese to stock island plantations off of Africa's coast), and did not end until the late 19th century. Over five centuries.

America did not perpetrate the Holocaust (indeed its armies helped end the holocaust, and the US helped support the creation of the modern state of Israel). So why is it up to our country to obsess over someone else's crime?

America did perpetrate slavery, and after fighting our bloodiest war to end slavery America still practiced Segregation for almost another century.

In contrast Jews fled to America to flee antisemitism in Europe (anti semitism in Europe was/is much worse in the best of times than it ever was in America even during the worst of times). The US had pogroms against Mormons, Blacks, and Chinese, but we never had pogroms against Jews like they did in Czarist Russia.



I understand this. I don't understand how CRT will help blacks succeed. In my mind, if they succeeded there wouldn't be the need for BLM, black crime, black injustice, etc... because there would be no need for them to come in contact with the police.

We've had affirmative action since 1965, that hasn't helped. We're lowering college admission standards and we have had an 8% increase in admission for blacks in 2018, which is something. We have stayed in the problem and CRT is another way of staying in the problem. As you said, we desegregated but we still discriminated. And just smashing something down the throat of Americans has never worked, a curriculum based on 'white man bad' isn't going to have the expected outcome. People who are not Liberals are becoming more and more resentful, not more and more enlightened. The same can be said for the young black man. The more people harp on the straight and narrow, the greater the appeal of the streets seem to become. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to enough to affect an entire generation. No one is on the same page because we do not have the same goals, we need one point we can all agree on and go from there. Start small, then work up. If they can experience success, maybe more will be persuaded.


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26 Apr 2023, 9:30 pm

I didn't reference CRT in the post you quoted. However, republicans and their supporters do overuse the theory where it doesn't belong

I am curious how Black history month is going to be delivered in states like Florida in the future. If I was a highschool history teacher in Florida I would be very very careful before prescribing reading that might get one parent to complain to a school board resulting in my termination. This might not be a problem for you or me, but it is a problem for teachers (and now university lecturers)

And it looks like the executions of university professors have started
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/18/11645303 ... stice-woke



Persephone29
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26 Apr 2023, 9:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I didn't reference CRT in the post you quoted. However, republicans and their supporters do overuse the theory where it doesn't belong

I am curious how Black history month is going to be delivered in states like Florida in the future. If I was a highschool history teacher in Florida I would be very very careful before prescribing reading that might get one parent to complain to a school board resulting in my termination. This might not be a problem for you or me, but it is a problem for teachers (and now university lecturers)

And it looks like the executions of university professors have started
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/18/11645303 ... stice-woke


It's never going to be gotten rid of. We will continue the same way we always have with what it was like, what happened. The people who stood up to discrimination and fought, died, risked everything for equal rights. There's nothing to fear in that. What has never been a part of the curriculum is how everyone in the US who isn't black is inherently racist. There is no benefit in shaming an entire generation who had nothing to do with slavery.


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26 Apr 2023, 11:29 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
This won't find any fans here, but many blacks are Christians and as such are given the same words to live by: I will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. Maybe it's bad to hate Jews in all worlds; the physical and the spiritual?


Antisemitism continues to be pretty common among Christians of all racial backgrounds. Clearly many Christians have forgotten that their faith is an expansion pack.


Agreed, after all I believe both Hitler and Mel Gibson are/were Christian. It makes absolutely no sense to go off on an entire race of people as the reason Christ was crucified, when without Christ's sacrifice there would be no salvation for Christians. Some people just want to hate...


Quote:
The religious beliefs of Adolf Hitler, dictator of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945, have been a matter of debate. His opinions regarding religious matters changed considerably over time. During the beginning of his political life, Hitler publicly expressed favorable opinions towards Christianity.[3][4] Some historians describe his later posture as being "anti-Christian".[5][6] He also criticized atheism.[7]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious ... olf_Hitler



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26 Apr 2023, 11:33 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
This is a genuine question:

When I see lessons about the Holocaust they are presented as a single moment in time. WWII, Concentration Camps, roughly 6 Million Jews wiped out of existence, their wealth stolen is easily the greatest example of racism to ever exist. The cumulative damage of that time period doesn't seem to warrant more than a blip in our world history lessons. Why?

Jews are still experiencing anti-semitism in the US and one of the ring leaders of Black anti-semitism is Lewis Farrakhan, following his example are people like Kanye West. Yet, we spend huge amounts of time focusing on racism towards blacks as if it's the only racism to ever exist in the US. And if we don't present it over and over again, all the time, we're all racists.

I don't get it. This is economically driven, it's about more than just human rights violations. It is somehow more beneficial to highlight racism towards black individuals above all others and I don't know why else except money.

You answered your own question.

The reason that the "Holocaust" is taught as a brief event is because thats what it was. The whole death camp system only existed for about four years in the early 1940s. The whole Nazi regime only existed for 12 years.

The transatlantic African slave trade began before the US was founded, and even before America was discovered by Columbus (started in circa 1450 by the Portugese to stock island plantations off of Africa's coast), and did not end until the late 19th century. Over five centuries.

America did not perpetrate the Holocaust (indeed its armies helped end the holocaust, and the US helped support the creation of the modern state of Israel). So why is it up to our country to obsess over someone else's crime?

America did perpetrate slavery, and after fighting our bloodiest war to end slavery America still practiced Segregation for almost another century.

In contrast Jews fled to America to flee antisemitism in Europe (anti semitism in Europe was/is much worse in the best of times than it ever was in America even during the worst of times). The US had pogroms against Mormons, Blacks, and Chinese, but we never had pogroms against Jews like they did in Czarist Russia.



I understand this. I don't understand how CRT will help blacks succeed. In my mind, if they succeeded there wouldn't be the need for BLM, black crime, black injustice, etc... because there would be no need for them to come in contact with the police.

We've had affirmative action since 1965, that hasn't helped. We're lowering college admission standards and we have had an 8% increase in admission for blacks in 2018, which is something. We have stayed in the problem and CRT is another way of staying in the problem. As you said, we desegregated but we still discriminated. And just smashing something down the throat of Americans has never worked, a curriculum based on 'white man bad' isn't going to have the expected outcome. People who are not Liberals are becoming more and more resentful, not more and more enlightened.


Yup.
With me, the more someone wants to dominate me, the more defiant I become. 8)



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26 Apr 2023, 11:37 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I didn't reference CRT in the post you quoted. However, republicans and their supporters do overuse the theory where it doesn't belong

I am curious how Black history month is going to be delivered in states like Florida in the future. If I was a highschool history teacher in Florida I would be very very careful before prescribing reading that might get one parent to complain to a school board resulting in my termination. This might not be a problem for you or me, but it is a problem for teachers (and now university lecturers)

And it looks like the executions of university professors have started
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/18/11645303 ... stice-woke


It's never going to be gotten rid of. We will continue the same way we always have with what it was like, what happened. The people who stood up to discrimination and fought, died, risked everything for equal rights. There's nothing to fear in that. What has never been a part of the curriculum is how everyone in the US who isn't black is inherently racist. There is no benefit in shaming an entire generation who had nothing to do with slavery.


Agreed.
And there is no positive benefit in shaming people of German descent for what happened during the war.
Psychology 101. 8)



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27 Apr 2023, 1:32 am

Persephone29 wrote:
What has never been a part of the curriculum is how everyone in the US who isn't black is inherently racist. There is no benefit in shaming an entire generation who had nothing to do with slavery.


That's not CRT. What you are referring to is "white privilege" and in the US mental health system it comes under the umbrella of systemic racism. I would find it somewhat farcical if every mental health worker was forced to revoke their oath to their code of ethics
https://www.apa.org/about/policy/racism-apology