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LeKiwi
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17 May 2008, 1:15 pm

slowmutant wrote:
What do the propagandists stand to gain by deceiving you like that, Kiwi? I don't get it. :?


Le moneys. Keep people in a state of constant fear that diseases/flu/nuclear war/al qaeda/the boogeyman of the moment is going to get you unless you do as they say, and so out of that fear that whatever the boogeyman is - in this case measles - will get you, you do exactly as they say. In this case they say 'vaccinate!', so you do it, and they reap the profits. Simple.


And beau, who is 'we'? I think the pharmaceutical companies are lying. Not Americans in general. So unless you work for them, I'd lose the 'we're'. :roll:


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17 May 2008, 2:15 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
I'd never even heard of shingles before I read all the US vaccine propaganda, let alone met or heard of anyone with it, which should go to show just how common it truly is.

Frequency of Shingles - 1 in 5
Epidemiology doesn't lie.



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17 May 2008, 2:44 pm

YowlingCat wrote:
LeKiwi wrote:
I'd never even heard of shingles before I read all the US vaccine propaganda, let alone met or heard of anyone with it, which should go to show just how common it truly is.

Frequency of Shingles - 1 in 5
Epidemiology doesn't lie.

According to LeKiwi, it does, because she insists that vaccines are ineffectual.


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17 May 2008, 11:50 pm

LeKiwi wrote:

And beau, who is 'we'? I think the pharmaceutical companies are lying. Not Americans in general. So unless you work for them, I'd lose the 'we're'. :roll:

I'm talking about those of us who go against what you say simply because we experienced it.

And just for the record, your last post in this thread before this one caused a meltdown in me.

Please tone it down.


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LeKiwi
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18 May 2008, 8:12 am

I'm sorry if it caused a meltdown, meltdowns are the pits, but if it upsets you that much just don't read it.


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18 May 2008, 9:44 am

LeKiwi wrote:
It IS propaganda. I'm sorry that you have it and I'm sure it is painful and awful and nasty, I don't doubt it, but I am saying I've not ever heard of one person with it and didn't even know it was related until I read some of the propaganda coming out of the States from the people pushing for the vaccine. So clearly it's not inevitable and it's not common, like they'd have you believe.


So because you havent heard about it, it must be a lie?

Sorry to hole the boat, but I can probably sit here all day listing things you havent heard of and dont know, and all of them exist....


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LeKiwi
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18 May 2008, 9:52 am

Not what I'm saying at all. But I work with people in the medical field all day, and after asking around yesterday one person had heard of one case of shingles. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I am saying it's nowhere near as prolific as they make it out to be, or as problematic.

Guess it's the same as they continue to tell everyone 36,000 people die of the flu every year. :roll:


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18 May 2008, 10:09 am

LeKiwi wrote:
Not what I'm saying at all. But I work with people in the medical field all day, and after asking around yesterday one person had heard of one case of shingles. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I am saying it's nowhere near as prolific as they make it out to be, or as problematic.

Guess it's the same as they continue to tell everyone 36,000 people die of the flu every year. :roll:


And perhaps the reason why there are so few cases of shingles for you to hear about in your area is because vaccination has helped cut it right down?


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LeKiwi
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18 May 2008, 10:12 am

Macbeth wrote:
LeKiwi wrote:
Not what I'm saying at all. But I work with people in the medical field all day, and after asking around yesterday one person had heard of one case of shingles. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I am saying it's nowhere near as prolific as they make it out to be, or as problematic.

Guess it's the same as they continue to tell everyone 36,000 people die of the flu every year. :roll:


And perhaps the reason why there are so few cases of shingles for you to hear about in your area is because vaccination has helped cut it right down?



The chicken pox vaccine isn't in my country... it hasn't been approved and they don't want to approve it either. It won't be here anytime in the foreseeable future as far as I'm aware.


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18 May 2008, 10:43 am

LeKiwi wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
LeKiwi wrote:
Not what I'm saying at all. But I work with people in the medical field all day, and after asking around yesterday one person had heard of one case of shingles. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I am saying it's nowhere near as prolific as they make it out to be, or as problematic.

Guess it's the same as they continue to tell everyone 36,000 people die of the flu every year. :roll:


And perhaps the reason why there are so few cases of shingles for you to hear about in your area is because vaccination has helped cut it right down?



The chicken pox vaccine isn't in my country... it hasn't been approved and they don't want to approve it either. It won't be here anytime in the foreseeable future as far as I'm aware.


Maybe chickenpox isnt something that occurs a lot in your country anyway


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18 May 2008, 10:55 am

Again, sorry... it's a childhood disease as common as the common cold. Everyone gets it, usually by the age of 6 or 7 (as it does the rounds at schools, kindy, nurseries etc). A lot of people will expose their kids to it so they get it young, too, when it's not particularly dangerous - natural immunity etc. I don't know anyone who hasn't had it. :)


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18 May 2008, 11:33 am

LeKiwi wrote:
I don't know anyone who hasn't had it. :)

Now you do.


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LeKiwi
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18 May 2008, 11:36 am

Orwell wrote:
LeKiwi wrote:
I don't know anyone who hasn't had it. :)

Now you do.


Aren't you worried about that? :?


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18 May 2008, 11:41 am

LeKiwi wrote:
Orwell wrote:
LeKiwi wrote:
I don't know anyone who hasn't had it. :)

Now you do.


Aren't you worried about that? :?

Worried about what? Not having had chicken pox? Not really. After it became obvious to my doctor that I wasn't catching chicken pox on my own (we had waited several years because it's just as well to have chicken pox and get immunity that way) I did eventually receive the varicella vaccination. Now I have the same immunity as anyone else who actually had chicken pox as a child, without risking the complications that could have cropped up if I had never been vaccinated and instead caught chicken pox at the age of 30, as my father did.


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LeKiwi
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18 May 2008, 3:01 pm

That's why I worry about the vaccine. If you cut down on the number of childhood cases, that's more people who can get it when they're older and when the risks of complications go up higher and higher... take into consideration the rate of failure of vaccines and the number of people who get the disease anyway (which is higher than people tend to imagine) then surely that should be a bit of a worry? Given that if you just leave it as it naturally should happen, in childhood, people will end up immune anyway and with minimal risks?

If you've been repeatedly exposed to it, why would you think you need the vaccine anyway? Surely you'd just assume you've got natural immunity and be glad for that?


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18 May 2008, 3:13 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
That's why I worry about the vaccine. If you cut down on the number of childhood cases, that's more people who can get it when they're older and when the risks of complications go up higher and higher...

No, because chickenpox is much more predictable than, say, influenza. The varicella vaccine can be trusted to work much more consistently than flu vaccines. And, as I said, the doctor preferred waiting to see if I got chicken pox naturally up to a certain point, but after a while it was decided that it would be best to go ahead and give me the vaccine so I would be immune.
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Given that if you just leave it as it naturally should happen, in childhood, people will end up immune anyway and with minimal risks?

But if you don't contract it early enough, you risk it beign more serious later on. I don't think it's necessary to package varicella with MMR, I would be more in favor of leaving that specific vaccine to anyone who hasn't had chickenpox by the age of maybe 13 or so.
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If you've been repeatedly exposed to it, why would you think you need the vaccine anyway? Surely you'd just assume you've got natural immunity and be glad for that?

1. In order to avoid having a more serious form of it later, as happened to my father when my older sister brought chickenpox into our house and he got sick.
2. That assumption would be horribly unfounded, and more wishful thinking than anything else. See my references to my father, who never had chickenpox as a child (or the vaccine, as it didn't exist back then) and paid for it later in adulthood.


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