Trudeau flees as first 1,000 Trucks Arrive in Ottawa

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Dox47
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15 Feb 2022, 5:09 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

There is a difference between protesting because, um, you are afraid of being killed because of the color of your skin, and being frustrated you can't cross a border with vaccinations you don't want to take

Putting aside the racial hysteria, you're addressing the wrong point, arguing about which protest you think is more just rather than the way the media has covered them and various politicians and activists have reacted to them. I feel like you're relapsing into that selective amnesia I've previously mentioned, you want to have an opinion, but you also don't want to put in the work to inform yourself, while waving away information that contradicts your recollections with a "I can't remember and I don't care enough to check", which is very frustrating to argue with.

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Brictoria
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15 Feb 2022, 5:33 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

So it's not just me who has noticed this trait of making generalised statements (often sidestepping the point of the person being responded to) and avoiding answering specific questions under a vague "don't have time\don't care to check", but quite quick (and with time to check) when wanting to make a point?

Going back to the simple questions I had posed for DW_a_mom:

Brictoria wrote:

Out of curiosity, how many "negative" acts (violence, property damage, theft, etc.) can be associated with\connected to either set of protests?

Thus far, there haven't been many\any reports of violence, property damage, theft, etc. with the current protest (although there was an "attempted mass murder" report where the person didn't bother to call the police, instead posting on twitter about it, and deleting his account there when asked about why he didn't contact police - it will be interesting to see what comes of it, but it's really giving "Jussie Smollett" vibes).
In the earlier protests, at least 25 deaths and $1-$2 Billion property damage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%8 ... ial_unrest)

Brictoria wrote:

Now, how much focus did the media place on presenting "positive" news about the former protests, compared to the "negative" coverage.
And, how much focus has the media placed on presenting "positive" news about this current protest, compared to the "negative" coverage.

I'd estimate (from what I have seen across multiple sources), that it would be at least 75% positive for the earlier protests, and at least 75% negative for the current one...Co-incidentally, the same sources tended to report positively for the former, and negatively for the present protest (and vice-versa).

It would be interesting if anyone else has observed anything different.

DW_a_mom
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15 Feb 2022, 6:37 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

I’m basically not in the mood to argue. So, yeah, what I throw into the conversation isn’t going to be up to your standards. I’m still allowed to have opinions and still allowed to be snarky if that is where my thoughts want to go. I am, however, trying to avoid commenting outside the scope of what I feel I have decent facts on. Not my best intellectual work, but so be it. My posts don’t get turned in for grading nor do I get paid to write them.

Off topic: haven’t seen Pepe recently. Is that because I’m opening the wrong threads or is he absent? Hope everything is OK.

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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 15 Feb 2022, 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

DW_a_mom
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15 Feb 2022, 6:46 am

Brictoria wrote:

Thus far, there haven't been many\any reports of violence, property damage, theft, etc. with the current protest.

Who needs to break windows when you’re surrounded by steel and can block roads, intersections and bridges; and create significant economic harm to whole industries as a result?

It’s a brilliant protest, when you think about it. Much more damaging but with less scary images.

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Brictoria
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15 Feb 2022, 6:53 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Off topic: haven’t seen Pepe recently. Is that because I’m opening the wrong threads or is he absent? Hope everything is OK.

He's currently taking a holiday, but I believe he said the other day that he should be back and in a position to post in the next couple of days.

I'll let him know you have missed him.

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15 Feb 2022, 7:12 am

These people didn't hesitate to bring their kids to a political rally.

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kraftiekortie
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15 Feb 2022, 8:11 am

If you were living in Ottawa, and your sleep was disturbed by truckers blocking your streets, I doubt you would have a high opinion of the “Freedom Convoy.”

How about if you worked in a factory, and got laid off for lack of work caused by the blockade of an international bridge, leading to the holdup of the delivery of vital work materials?

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15 Feb 2022, 8:24 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

Thus far, there haven't been many\any reports of violence, property damage, theft, etc. with the current protest.

Depending on the part (and time) of the protest being discussed, this could either be:
Nonviolent resistance, as practiced by:

Quote:

Mahatma Gandhi, Henry David Thoreau, Charles Stewart Parnell, Te Whiti o Rongomai, Tohu Kākahi, Leo Tolstoy, Alice Paul, Martin Luther King Jr., Daniel Berrigan, Philip Berrigan, James Bevel, Václav Havel, Andrei Sakharov, Lech Wałęsa, Gene Sharp, Nelson Mandela, Jose Rizal, and many others.

Or Civil disobedience, as practiced by such notable people as:

Quote:

Susan B. Anthony of the U.S. women's suffrage movement in the late 1800s, Saad Zaghloul in the 1910s culminating in Egyptian Revolution of 1919 against British Occupation, and Mahatma Gandhi in 1920s India in their protests for Indian independence against the British Raj. Martin Luther King Jr.'s and James Bevel's peaceful protests during the civil rights movement in the 1960s United States contained important aspects of civil disobedience.

Taking the non-violent route is more likely to attract those who are not ideologically opposed to the aims but not aligned with them either, as opposed to a protest which descends into violence, which tends to alienate potential supporters.

This also comes into how the media portray various protests - If they desire people to support a cause, they will focus on the peaceful activities while trying to hide any violence, etc.. Similarly, if they dislike the protests aims, they will focus on any negative aspect they can find (or create), while ignoring the peaceful aspects.

The infamous CNN chyron about "Fiery but mostly peaceful protests" while the screen showed a reporter standing in front of vehicles (and a building?) on fire, is actually a reasonable example of "balanced" reporting on a protest, as it is describing the positive aspects, while not hiding the negative ones at the same time.

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15 Feb 2022, 8:38 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

How about the people (often from the outer suburbs) who lost jobs because of mandates, or through shutdowns (low paid hospitality workers, for example) because the owner couldn't afford to keep them employed, or where businesses were forced to close and lay off their staff because they couldn't afford the costs accrued during lockdowns when they had no way to get income and had had repeatedly ordered perishable stock which had to be discarded each time a new lockdown was imposed, and which they received no recompence for.

Those in the inner city\CBD are less likely to have been impacted, as most of them would likely have government\office jobs which can be done at home, so wouldn't be aware of the suffering that those less fortunate have had to endure, as they have enjoyed the privilege of a steady income through the time, with no stress about losing their jobs, and a factory is unlikely to lay off workers due to the blockade - They'd be more likely to furlough them for the duration of the protest.

funeralxempire
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15 Feb 2022, 8:42 am

Blockade Backlash: Three-in-four Canadians tell convoy protesters, ‘Go Home Now’

Quote:

If the goal of the Freedom Convoy was to capture the attention of millions of people in Canada and around the globe – mission accomplished.

If, however, the goal was to build support for their demands to end pandemic-related restrictions – it has backfired utterly.

New public opinion data from the non-profit Angus Reid Institute shows after more than two weeks of unrest, Canadians are now more likely to oppose measures sought by protesters.

Overall, more than two-in-five now say Canadians say the protests have made them more inclined to support ongoing restrictions related to masking indoors (44%) and vaccination requirements to cross the Canada-U.S. border (44%).

As the country rolls into another week of uncertainty, nearly three-quarters of Canadians (72%) say the time has come for protesters to “go home, they have made their point.”

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Brictoria
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15 Feb 2022, 8:53 am

It seems it's not the first time truckies have shut down roads, etc:

Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/the-truckers-go-to-washington-democracy-in-action-on-the-interstate-68811/

kraftiekortie
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15 Feb 2022, 9:55 am

I am aware of the economic suffering of those who were affected by lockdowns.

I am of the opinion that the Canadian lockdown measures were excessive.

Still, I find it arrogant that truckers took over residential streets, and blocked them. And blew their horns. A few of the truckers harassed people for no good reason. These people didn't cause the "economic suffering."

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15 Feb 2022, 10:55 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Since most of us here have some level of sensory issues I thought defending the honking was sort of silly.

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15 Feb 2022, 11:31 am

if they wish this protest to be over, why dont the people that live there flood Trudeaus offices with
requests that he engage the protesters even , stop the mandates .? It is political bullying for him not to do So . All the Canadians want is,a real government run by the people not political interests. But Canadas politic , is trying to model themselves on the USA. imho.

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kraftiekortie
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15 Feb 2022, 11:50 am

Originally, Trudeau felt he couldn't meet face-to-face with the protesters because he and some of his family tested positive for COVID.

After the "quarantine" was over, it probably would have been best if he engaged with the protesters in some way.

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15 Feb 2022, 11:59 am

Jakki wrote:

Because they understand that the Canadian Prime Minister cannot cave to the demands of morons occupying Ottawa. That's not how things go. Just like American Presidents don't typically tend to negotiate with terrorists or protesters, same goes here.. can't go caving in to the demands of angry truckers that have nothing to do with setting public health policy - especially not the USA's health policies that require them to be vaccinated in order to gain entry to the USA.

There's nothing to say to them besides what JT already has: We heard you, now go home - you're breaking the law and will face arrest and criminal charges if you stick around.

Literally probably every Canadian is growing tired of covid and mitigation measures to some extent, but MOST Canadians realize this is all a temporary inconvenience and that in time the pandemic will fizzle out as pandemics do and then things can return back to some degree of normalcy. Trudeau can't make these things happen instantly just because some truckers honk their horns. That's not how science works. So as much as we're all tired of covid, we're tired of hearing these people honk their horns and mess up traffic everywhere. 3 of them were arrested at the border crossing nearest my house here on the West Coast a couple days ago. Shame they weren't able to arrest them all - but being stupid isn't actually a crime.

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