Iowa woman runs over 14yo girl “because she was a Mexican”

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You were talking about focusing on the left, as if you had some experience, even though you thought supporting a living wage was Marxism. I challenged you on this point, as it sounded like a right-wing talking point to call proposals like this Marxist, which the right has done since the Cold War. This is despite the fact you said that you had ascertained what you know about the left from the left. You then said that, oh, it was just left-wing talking points you focused on, bypassing what we were talking about all together.

For people on the left, it's pretty exasperating for people to keep lumping in the social democrats with the commies. It's something we see all the time coming from the right.

He must get might tired from continually shifting the goal posts...arms of steel huh Ezzy

I was talking with Bill about what he himself was saying in culmination with what he has said in many other posts you were not around to read. You chimed in with your spiel which didn't pertain to what I was discussing with Bill and why I said what I said to Bill. You were the one who lumped in things that were not there to use as an arguing point.

The way you are figuring this out is almost as bad as when you reported in the mod thread that I made a personal attack against you, when I was talking politicians.

Not true at all. Kraichgauer understood the same thing I did, and made the same basic point. Here:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=383455&start=540#p8418559

I would appreciate if you would stop trying to draw a wedge between me and the other participants. I have as much right to participate here as you.

EDIT: Kraichgauer even made the same basic point as I have in the past about how the right wants hierarchy.

Apparently the powers that be think that notion is just as crazy as I do.

Something interesting I've noticed is that the 'swarm' of 5 or so members bemoaning capitalism are posting constantly. How can anyone who is dissatisfied with their current financial situation ever hope to get ahead if they are constantly posting on a message board? I'm not even working right now and I have to catch up when I can. I have responsibilities, errands, children, a house to run. And I don't get paid for that work. It leaves me maybe 3 hours a day for computer time. But you guys are on here all day and half the night and wonder why you're poor?

Next you'll be saying that 3 hours a day working in a burger joint should be the same as eight with a living wage. The more I read these discussions, the more I get the feeling that people with two good arms, two good legs and great vocabularies just don't want to do much of anything and somehow 'get ahead.' I just don't buy into that. There's always something someone can do to contribute. When I stopped being able to work as a nurse for a while and we were in a pinch, I did yard work. It was rewarding. I made $10/hr and it helped us get through that time. Then, I got cancer and couldn't. But my point was that I was alone, I didn't need to worry about interacting with anyone.

I don't believe it when someone says they can't do anything. Everyone can do something... and if you can't, you'll be found to be disabled and get help. That's what the system was designed for. Not a group of self-diagnosed people, or people who just throw up their hands and say, "I can't do anything!" Really, nothing?

Are you giving us financial and time management advice? or trying to chase us away

Why do you think I'm talking about myself? Just because I'm not working a burger flipping job doesn't mean I'm not empathetic toward their plight.
I'm a starving artist (writer), and I depend on my wife through mutual agreement. She believes in my writing. The point of liberalism is that one has empathy for those who have it bad, if not worse, than yourself. In fact, I fail to see how the conservative evangelical point of view has any connection to with the traditional point of Christianity.

And it's amazing how she always seems to frame fighting for universal health care as "giving up", when that is the opposite of what we're doing. What does she think of the people from the countries with universal health care? Does she think they're just a bunch of helpless sycophants or something? I think some of the posters here might have a thing or two to say about that.

Universal health care is key to equality of opportunity, because you don't have it if you're dead. All these diversions into talking about "rejects" and stuff, make me think there is a kind of jealousy there, like she will be lowered to their level if we adopt it. But that doesn't make any sense, and in countries like Canada and Japan and the UK and Sweden and all the others, people who work hard still get ahead. In fact, those countries have much better economic mobility in the US, and that's probably because of the support they get:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aparnamath ... 2288fa6a7b

In my experience, if I didn't receive the support I got when I moved to California, I'd have probably been dead or locked up in a mental institution or something. This kind of government support is enabling, it allows people to be the best they can be.

v

But that's the point - those without don't deserve health care or a living wage if they're poor or disabled!
I personally find it harder and harder to handle people who think your worth as a human being depends on one's bank account.

Its also common sense. You look after your poorest in terms health, education and welfare and you create a healthier, happier and safer society

Rugged individualism, so treasured in the US, hasn't worked out so well in terms of poverty, crime, employment etc

Charlton Heston when asked if America was the greatest country in the world then what about gun crime and incarceration, Heston's response is typical of middle America - he blamed all the ethnic minorities.

Finally had a chance to clean up all the irrelevant and the personal remarks on here and at least try to bring this thread back on topic.

Thanks to those who are keeping to topic.

I remember Heston saying that.

Open racism seems to have been quite "acceptable" in those times - and not only in South Africa. Certainly people who made such remarks weren't called out on them.

Yes, most everyone agrees that a Socialist Utopia would be just dandy.

However, the concern is in sacrificing freedoms and giving greedy, flawed humans power over you.

You paint a rosy picture, and totally ignore the dangers.

Last edited by TheRobotLives on 28 Dec 2019, 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

There's similar pattern going on between about three right now, who seem to equate saying able bodied / able minded people should pull their own weight, as meaning disabled people should not SSDI. It seems like virtually any suggestion that a person should look after themselves if they are able is viewed as an abhorrent notion.