F.B.I. Raids Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate

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DW_a_mom
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27 Aug 2022, 8:39 pm

r00tb33r wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

r00tb33r wrote:

I hadn't cared about this news but then one thing got me curious.

Is this all about the originals of documents? Why didn't Trump just take copies? Or return the originals when he was put on notice?

Making copies would not have been any less illegal. It is having them in any form that is against the law. A president does not own any intellectual property, records, documents or work product from his time in office and is not supposed to keep any scrap of it.

Why he didn’t return the all the documents despite numerous asks and attempts at voluntary recovery is a mystery. The affidavit shows the attempt at recovery had been going on since January, lots of lawyers involved, and the warrant was a last ditch effort after exhausting every other avenue. Is it simply that he refused to accept he didn’t have legal ownership, or does he have some use in mind? Did he want to keep the content out of access by investigators? Or maybe he liked the visual of making the government come and get the documents, knowing it would rile up his base? Who knows.

It is not legal but if copied on certain machines leaves no evidence.

Anyhow, Hillary Clinton for years had staff scan documents marked secret and send them via her private email service. It violated all the same laws, yet she didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

Her case has pretty much set the precedent for FBI.

There is a lot to compare in the two cases, but I see one difference that is likely to be key: Trump kept the documents despite on-going efforts by the government to get him to return them. He allowed the situation to advance into a search warrant stage. The more I think about it, the more I think he wanted the visual. I wish I understood how his mind works; could see the missing pieces, because from here it looks like he allowed this all to advance to a point where the DOJ has a clear obstruction case. As they say, its the cover up that is the thing ... but he also knows that, so if he expected this all to go down as it has, he has a reason.

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Matrix Glitch
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27 Aug 2022, 8:45 pm

Trump kept the documents because he thought he had the right to do so, because as president they belonged to him. It's as simple as that.

The the idea he was planning on selling them to China or whoever is preposterous.

DW_a_mom
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27 Aug 2022, 8:53 pm

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Most likely he’s been playing us like a fiddle the whole time. Having Democrats go after him strengthens his base and he knew it would all along. That man can really read - and manipulate - people.

But, you're still going after him...

See, I think the man is basically a moron with a certain low cunning who happened to be in the right place at the right time, not some kind of master manipulator playing 4D chess with everyone, but his one trick seems to work on Democrats every single time even after you've seen it thousands of times before, it's kinda weird.

I think its a bit of both with him. He excels at soft skills that you and I don't really understand as well, but I watch in amazement sometimes at what people can do with that. He isn't smart in the way you and I normally think of the term, and he doesn't play chess; he "reads the room" then operates on instinct. So, yes, right place at the right time, but with a skill set that allowed him to ride it and use it to his continued advantage.

I think Democrats are now between a rock and a hard place. It's clear he's broken the law and down some pretty destructive things to our Democracy, so they won't stop advocating for pursuit of justice, but that pursuit also builds loyalty and followers for him. I'm not as gleeful nor as hopeful as many of my friends watching all this fall out. My husband and I both believe that he's going to walk away with no consequences; it's his pattern.

I remember a particular story from back in the early 1990s when he was doing his financial workouts, and the firm I was with was helping him. There is a lot of insight into his skill set in that story; I can't share the story, but I can share the insight: he's truly a master salesman, that had even our top negotiator in awe.

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DW_a_mom
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27 Aug 2022, 8:58 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:

It may be, but he's been informed over and over that the documents do not, in fact, belong to him, and his lawyers have made legal filings that indicate he is aware, at some level, that the law says the documents don't belong to him.

They belong to the executive branch, not the president or former president.

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DW_a_mom
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27 Aug 2022, 8:59 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Whatever floats your boat.

I see what you did there :lol:

Corney as it was, I couldn't resist.

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27 Aug 2022, 9:11 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

IOW he was being stubborn. How atypical of him :lol:

Dox47
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27 Aug 2022, 9:30 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

I think Democrats are now between a rock and a hard place. It's clear he's broken the law and down some pretty destructive things to our Democracy, so they won't stop advocating for pursuit of justice, but that pursuit also builds loyalty and followers for him. I'm not as gleeful nor as hopeful as many of my friends watching all this fall out. My husband and I both believe that he's going to walk away with no consequences; it's his pattern.

I guess that's what I don't get; if you know that pursuing him helps him and likely won't lead to any consequences for him, why do it? It's like throwing Br'er Rabbit in the briar patch knowing full well that's what he want you to do, and then doing it over and over and over again expecting different results.

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27 Aug 2022, 11:03 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

That man can really read - and manipulate - people.

That is why I find the theory that he is autistic ludicrous.

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Dox47
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27 Aug 2022, 11:17 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

That is why I find the theory that he is autistic ludicrous.

Wait, someone thinks that? He's like the least autistic person I can think of, like the opposite almost.

Now, if you were to tell me that he's been on an epic coke bender since 1985, and that he's actually a normal guy underneath, I might consider that, he certainly displays a lot of the telltale traits of a long term stimulant user. Also, that would be hilarious.

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27 Aug 2022, 11:28 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

That man can really read - and manipulate - people.

That is why I find the theory that he is autistic ludicrous.

That's just one of the 8746219 armchair diagnoses that have been given about him.

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27 Aug 2022, 11:50 pm

Dox47 wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

That is why I find the theory that he is autistic ludicrous.

Back in 2017 our very own Goldfish thought he might be.
Trump "Autism. Full Blown Autism." Thoughts?

Trump Has 'Social Autism,' Doesn't See 'Other People,' Says Conservative Pundit George Will

Does Donald Trump have Asperger syndrome?

Donald Trump is like an Aspie

There was a bunch of speculation when Barron was "outed" as "Autistic" by Rosie O'Donnel. If Barron is Autistic he must of gotten it from daddy's genes. Most of the speculation centers around his lack of social filter, his bluntness, etc.

DW_a_mom
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28 Aug 2022, 1:47 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Not every Democrat is on the same page as my husband and I.

A lot of people seem to still believe that with enough evidence his fall is inevitable. As long as people believe it and push for it, elected representatives will play along.

There is SOME movement among Republicans as facts come out, but I doubt it is enough.

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DW_a_mom
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28 Aug 2022, 1:53 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

That is why I find the theory that he is autistic ludicrous.

That would be a brilliant con, wouldn't it? Get people to think you aren't socially aware, so they'll never see it coming when you tap into their inner fears and desires to manipulate them and close the sale. I don't think it's intentionally part of his con, though, just saying (he far too openly says "trust me, I'll get it done" to be trying to convince people he has no talent with people). But I do think he's aware that his unvarnished persona doesn't hurt and might aid his success.

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28 Aug 2022, 2:00 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

That is why I find the theory that he is autistic ludicrous.

Ironically Trump himself has become a syndrome.

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28 Aug 2022, 2:32 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:

Not China, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was intending to sell them to Russia or Saudi Arabia, two countries that he has had strong leanings toward. The super wealthy don't feel any connection to their own countries, but form an elite international community based around their own class, Trump included.

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28 Aug 2022, 5:35 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

If only he had made photocopies instead of trying to sell original documents the DOJ knew he had.

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