Emergence of a Deadly Coronavirus
goldfish21
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Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Keep the shutdowns and lockdowns going until the economy plunges into a depression; if that happens, it's a problem for people who suffer badly from a financial depression as well as being a problem for Trump.
Those who are giddy, raise your hand.
So long as it’s a problem for trump it’s all kosher with you, eh?
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Keep the shutdowns and lockdowns going until the economy plunges into a depression; if that happens, it's a problem for people who suffer badly from a financial depression as well as being a problem for Trump.
Those who are giddy, raise your hand.
Yes already had a dizzy spell from this conundrum. But the herd immunity argument is going to be less potent anyway when the HIV characteristics of the COVID-19 virus become apparent and infected people discover their antibodies won't prevent reinfection.
Keep the shutdowns and lockdowns going until the economy plunges into a depression; if that happens, it's a problem for people who suffer badly from a financial depression as well as being a problem for Trump.
Those who are giddy, raise your hand.
Yes already had a dizzy spell from this conundrum. But the herd immunity argument is going to be less potent anyway when the HIV characteristics of the COVID-19 virus become apparent and infected people discover their antibodies won't prevent reinfection.
I'm fearing you might be correct. I agree we're still in the infancy in knowing everything we can about this virus.
We'll be better off than we are now when we learn definitively how long it can stay on surfaces for example, airborne, etc.
I also fear if no vaccine can be discovered and if it does have HIV characteristics then those who are not infected may have to live out their lives by wearing masks anywhere other than in their own homes . What if we're experiencing the start of a perpetual nightmare that will never be "normal" again? What if to those who haven't been infected the world ends up being a toxic place (ie requiring a mask for life)?
Keep the shutdowns and lockdowns going until the economy plunges into a depression; if that happens, it's a problem for people who suffer badly from a financial depression as well as being a problem for Trump.
Those who are giddy, raise your hand.
Yes already had a dizzy spell from this conundrum. But the herd immunity argument is going to be less potent anyway when the HIV characteristics of the COVID-19 virus become apparent and infected people discover their antibodies won't prevent reinfection.
I'm fearing you might be correct. I agree we're still in the infancy in knowing everything we can about this virus.
We'll be better off than we are now when we learn definitively how long it can stay on surfaces for example, airborne, etc.
I also fear if no vaccine can be discovered and if it does have HIV characteristics then those who are not infected may have to live out their lives by wearing masks anywhere other than in their own homes . What if we're experiencing the start of a perpetual nightmare that will never be "normal" again? What if to those who haven't been infected the world ends up being a toxic place (ie requiring a mask for life)?
Yes the scenario literally becomes a dystopian future which is now becoming more realistic.
https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefr ... nt42uyp1DE
Doctors at the University of Chicago Medicine are seeing “truly remarkable” results using high-flow nasal cannulas rather than ventilators and intubation to treat some COVID-19 patients.
High-flow nasal cannulas, or HFNCs, are non-invasive nasal prongs that sit below the nostrils and blow large volumes of warm, humidified oxygen into the nose and lungs.
A team from UChicago Medicine’s emergency room took dozens of COVID-19 patients who were in respiratory distress and gave them HFNCs instead of putting them on ventilators. The patients all fared extremely well, and only one of them required intubation after 10 days.
Doctors at the University of Chicago Medicine are seeing “truly remarkable” results using high-flow nasal cannulas rather than ventilators and intubation to treat some COVID-19 patients.
High-flow nasal cannulas, or HFNCs, are non-invasive nasal prongs that sit below the nostrils and blow large volumes of warm, humidified oxygen into the nose and lungs.
A team from UChicago Medicine’s emergency room took dozens of COVID-19 patients who were in respiratory distress and gave them HFNCs instead of putting them on ventilators. The patients all fared extremely well, and only one of them required intubation after 10 days.
This is very good news. The survival rate for someone hooked up to a ventilator for any reason is shockingly low. I read an article within the last month that gave a statistic where once someone is hooked up to a ventilator (not just for Corona) they have like a 50/50 chance of dying and the invasiveness of the ventilator itself can permanently damage a person's lungs or even kill them.
COVID19 is known to cause blood clots in survivors.
Doctors Report People in Their 30s and 40s With COVID-19 Are Having Strokes
https://www.yahoo.com/news/doctors-repo ... 30026.html
“The virus seems to be causing increased clotting in the large arteries, leading to severe stroke,"
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Doctors at the University of Chicago Medicine are seeing “truly remarkable” results using high-flow nasal cannulas rather than ventilators and intubation to treat some COVID-19 patients.
High-flow nasal cannulas, or HFNCs, are non-invasive nasal prongs that sit below the nostrils and blow large volumes of warm, humidified oxygen into the nose and lungs.
A team from UChicago Medicine’s emergency room took dozens of COVID-19 patients who were in respiratory distress and gave them HFNCs instead of putting them on ventilators. The patients all fared extremely well, and only one of them required intubation after 10 days.
This is very good news. The survival rate for someone hooked up to a ventilator for any reason is shockingly low. I read an article within the last month that gave a statistic where once someone is hooked up to a ventilator (not just for Corona) they have like a 50/50 chance of dying and the invasiveness of the ventilator itself can permanently damage a person's lungs or even kill them.
Could it be, that in order to be hooked up to a ventilator, you are pretty close to death,
Hence the poor recovery rate?
Doctors at the University of Chicago Medicine are seeing “truly remarkable” results using high-flow nasal cannulas rather than ventilators and intubation to treat some COVID-19 patients.
High-flow nasal cannulas, or HFNCs, are non-invasive nasal prongs that sit below the nostrils and blow large volumes of warm, humidified oxygen into the nose and lungs.
A team from UChicago Medicine’s emergency room took dozens of COVID-19 patients who were in respiratory distress and gave them HFNCs instead of putting them on ventilators. The patients all fared extremely well, and only one of them required intubation after 10 days.
This is very good news. The survival rate for someone hooked up to a ventilator for any reason is shockingly low. I read an article within the last month that gave a statistic where once someone is hooked up to a ventilator (not just for Corona) they have like a 50/50 chance of dying and the invasiveness of the ventilator itself can permanently damage a person's lungs or even kill them.
Could it be, that in order to be hooked up to a ventilator, you are pretty close to death,
Hence the poor recovery rate?
I would assume so. However hearing that blowing warm moist air into someone's nose is producing "truly remarkable" results rather than hooking them up to an invasive and potentially deadly ventilator seems like startlingly opposite extremes to treat the same symptoms.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
Keep the shutdowns and lockdowns going until the economy plunges into a depression; if that happens, it's a problem for people who suffer badly from a financial depression as well as being a problem for Trump.
Those who are giddy, raise your hand.
Yes already had a dizzy spell from this conundrum. But the herd immunity argument is going to be less potent anyway when the HIV characteristics of the COVID-19 virus become apparent and infected people discover their antibodies won't prevent reinfection.
I'm fearing you might be correct. I agree we're still in the infancy in knowing everything we can about this virus.
We'll be better off than we are now when we learn definitively how long it can stay on surfaces for example, airborne, etc.
I also fear if no vaccine can be discovered and if it does have HIV characteristics then those who are not infected may have to live out their lives by wearing masks anywhere other than in their own homes . What if we're experiencing the start of a perpetual nightmare that will never be "normal" again? What if to those who haven't been infected the world ends up being a toxic place (ie requiring a mask for life)?
Yes the scenario literally becomes a dystopian future which is now becoming more realistic.
Life after lockdown: Electronic monitoring, fines and compulsory face masks
Taiwan was one of the few places in the world that didn’t go into lockdown and kept its economy running and citizens working while only recording six deaths out of 400 coronavirus cases.
But it made some immediate and, for the time being, permanent adjustments that could hold the key to what our future will look like in the age of the coronavirus.
While major international airports in the United States are still not temperature checking visitors to our country — and then losing track of them once they exit the airport — Taiwan is the polar opposite.
All international arrivals to the island have their temperature checked and, according to NBCNews, they have to turn over their cell phones so health authorities can record and track them using the GPS signals. And everyone has to make sure they’re quarantined for 14 days. If they can’t track your phone — maybe you have bad reception or your battery dies — expect a visit from the police.
If you don’t answer your phone when the authorities call, text message will be sent that read, “Please return home immediately. Violations of home isolation/home quarantine regulations will result in fines and mandatory placement. The Central Epidemic Command Center cares about you.”
Fines for disobeying run from $3,333 to $333,333.
Once out of the airport, people must take special “epidemic-prevention taxis” to a quarantine facility.
Meanwhile, most buildings and offices in the Chinese-run state take the temperature of everyone going in and out — if someone has a fever, the government is notified.
In large buildings, visitors have to leave their names, phone numbers and where they’re going so that if there is an outbreak, they can track it faster, according to NBC.
Children have their temperature taken at school and are sent to the hospital if they have a fever.
As for restaurants — they are constantly sanitized, customers are told to wash their hands and avoid talking to one another and, NBC reports, some restaurants are blocking off some chairs to keep diners separated.
SEE ALSO
Why Taiwan was the only nation that responded correctly to coronavirus
“Even before the epidemic, our staff wore masks and disinfected the tables at the end of the day,” Chen Bo-wei, a Taiwanese restaurant manager told NBC. “But now we wipe the tables and other common areas, such as the bathrooms, whenever we have time.”
The country has stockpiled face masks (which are worn at all times) and hand sanitizers — which are dispensed practically everywhere.
Disturbingly, almost everyone is tracked.
Taiwan’s borough chiefs are tasked with making calls twice a day to people in their jurisdiction to make sure they’re staying home, according to NBC.
And just because you can go out when you want or for work, the Taiwanese still socially distance and there are no concerts or large sports gatherings where there are more than 100 people indoors or 150 people outdoors.
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Surprisingly enough, this is also true of controlling the Zitka virus, spread by mosquitoes.
They tell you to get rid of standing water, as this provides the perfect breeding conditions.
But, suppose an Aspie to the exact opposite approach, and changed his daily gardening routine to leave the watering can filled with water at the end of the day. And he empties it every day to water his vegetables. What are the chances of mosquitoes breeding in the watering can? Pretty much zero. But, the water in the can acts as an effective trap. It is hard to get rid of all standing water--and the mosquitoes will find any. It is more effective to trap the mosquito larvae with the water in the watering can!
Last edited by BTDT on 26 Apr 2020, 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Keep the shutdowns and lockdowns going until the economy plunges into a depression; if that happens, it's a problem for people who suffer badly from a financial depression as well as being a problem for Trump.
Those who are giddy, raise your hand.
Yes already had a dizzy spell from this conundrum. But the herd immunity argument is going to be less potent anyway when the HIV characteristics of the COVID-19 virus become apparent and infected people discover their antibodies won't prevent reinfection.
I'm fearing you might be correct. I agree we're still in the infancy in knowing everything we can about this virus.
We'll be better off than we are now when we learn definitively how long it can stay on surfaces for example, airborne, etc.
I also fear if no vaccine can be discovered and if it does have HIV characteristics then those who are not infected may have to live out their lives by wearing masks anywhere other than in their own homes . What if we're experiencing the start of a perpetual nightmare that will never be "normal" again? What if to those who haven't been infected the world ends up being a toxic place (ie requiring a mask for life)?
Yes the scenario literally becomes a dystopian future which is now becoming more realistic.
Life after lockdown: Electronic monitoring, fines and compulsory face masks
Military Satellite technology can already scan heat signatures of individuals. AI robot controlled surveillance in 5 yrs time will mean if you are having hot flushes then expect SWAT to come bursting through your door.
People do produce antibodies in the process of them suffering from COVID19.
Random sampling occurred in NY State. It was found that 21% of NYC residents sampled had the antibodies for COVID19.
People who recovered from COVID19 are encouraged to donate their plasma for the treatment of people with serious cases of COVID19.
In reference to the low survival rate from people on vents being 50%: the survival rate of people who get CPR is only 10% to get to the hospital and only 3% are alive a month later.
In reference to the standing water : is no way to get rid of standing water when you live in a swamp.
The plasma antibodies sounds encouraging.
But the weirdest thing about this virus is the second attack which becomes most deadly. Where is it hiding in the body during that quiescent period? What reactivates it? How long can it stay there, awaiting the second attack? The second attack brings whole body shutdown, like sepsis. I would love to know how it does that.
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ANOTHER IMPORTANT SYMPTOM OF COVID-19
'Silent hypoxia' may be killing COVID-19 patients, but one doctor offers a possible solution
Doctors have observed a strange trend in more COVID-19 patients: people with blood oxygen saturation levels that are very low but who aren't gasping for breath.
Although often quite ill, these patients are not presenting symptoms like most acute respiratory distress syndromes, which is a lung failure previously associated with the SARS outbreak in 2003 and other respiratory diseases.
These types of patients are alert and feeling relatively well, but their lungs are not performing their proper function. This presentation is known as "silent hypoxia" and it's causing some people to arrive at the hospital in worse health than they realize.
In a recent New York Times op-ed, Richard Levitan, an emergency room doctor who invented a procedure for teaching intubation -- the insertion of breathing tubes that many COVID-19 patients require, explained that there might be a way around this issue.
Silent hypoxia progressing rapidly to respiratory failure explains cases of COVID-19 patients dying suddenly despite not feeling short of breath.
As Levitan notes in his op-ed, one reason COVID-19 is putting a strain on our public health system is the severity of lung injury patients have when they arrive in emergency rooms. Unfortunately, many patients aren't arriving in hospitals until their condition has already worsened, and then they often need to be put on ventilators.
That can lead to a shortage of those machines -- and doctors having to make untenable decisions about rationing of care.
"There is a way we could identify more patients who have COVID pneumonia sooner and treat them more effectively — and it would not require waiting for a coronavirus test at a hospital or doctor’s office," Levitan writes in the Times. "It requires detecting silent hypoxia early through a common medical device that can be purchased without a prescription at most pharmacies: a pulse oximeter."
Pulse oximeters, which are carried by most EMTs, are small devices placed on a person's fingertip; with the press of a button, they display oxygen saturation and pulse rate.
According to Levitan, the small devices saved the lives of two physicians he knows.
"Widespread pulse oximetry screening for COVID pneumonia — whether people check themselves on home devices or go to clinics or doctors’ offices — could provide an early warning system for the kinds of breathing problems associated with COVID pneumonia," the doctor writes.
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Silent hypoxia sounds very similar to another condition called walking pneumonia.
“Walking pneumonia" sounds like it could be the name of a sci-fi horror flick. But it's actually the least scary kind of pneumonia. It can be milder than the other types, and you usually don’t have to stay in the hospital. You could have walking pneumonia and not even know it. Walking pneumonia is how some people describe a mild case of pneumonia.
Anyone can get it. Walking pneumonia from mycoplasma is most common in children, military recruits, and adults younger than 40.
People who live and work in crowded places -- such as schools, dorms, military barracks, and nursing homes -- are more likely to come into contact with it.
Walking pneumonia spreads through sneezes or coughs. But it spreads slowly. If you get it, you could be contagious (which means you could spread it to other people) for up to 10 days.
Researchers think it takes a lot of close contact with an infected person for a healthy person to catch walking pneumonia.
Source: Walking Pneumonia
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One of the recommendations that I made very early on was that every family should have a a pulse oximeter. [see page 59 of this thread on 10 March] I thought it was important enough that I included it in the Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic. Pulse oximeters have become common in the modern world. Just as thermometers measure your temperature. Pulse oximeters clamp onto your fingertip and measure the oxygen in your blood. They are available on Amazon for under $20. This device will warn you if you become infected and begin to show symptoms of "silent hypoxia" or "walking pneumonia".
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Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."
Doctors at the University of Chicago Medicine are seeing “truly remarkable” results using high-flow nasal cannulas rather than ventilators and intubation to treat some COVID-19 patients.
High-flow nasal cannulas, or HFNCs, are non-invasive nasal prongs that sit below the nostrils and blow large volumes of warm, humidified oxygen into the nose and lungs.
A team from UChicago Medicine’s emergency room took dozens of COVID-19 patients who were in respiratory distress and gave them HFNCs instead of putting them on ventilators. The patients all fared extremely well, and only one of them required intubation after 10 days.
This is very good news. The survival rate for someone hooked up to a ventilator for any reason is shockingly low. I read an article within the last month that gave a statistic where once someone is hooked up to a ventilator (not just for Corona) they have like a 50/50 chance of dying and the invasiveness of the ventilator itself can permanently damage a person's lungs or even kill them.
Could it be, that in order to be hooked up to a ventilator, you are pretty close to death,
Hence the poor recovery rate?
That is part of the answer. Ventilators push air into the lungs, often with too much force. Over time, too much air pressure breaks apart the alveoli. Without the alveoli fully working, the person cannot exchange gases to complete respiration properly. They will show signs similar to COPD when this happens, including loss of oxygen supply to organs. If they recover from the virus, they now have other damage to deal with.
