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QuantumChemist
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27 Apr 2020, 10:12 am

Darmok wrote:
Here's an interesting medical research paper from three years ago about a technique developed in the 1940s: UV irradiation of the bloodstream. It's kind of like bringing disinfecting light inside the body. Seems to stimulate the immune system too. Maybe somebody should look into it.

Ultraviolet Irradiation of Blood: “The Cure That Time Forgot”?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122858/


That medical process carries the risk of leukemia developing. Any electromagnetic radiation higher than visible light can cause cancers within the body by breaking bonds within DNA. If the DNA damage is not repaired correctly and is on the part that dictates cell death, the damaged cell might become cancerous. On the outside of the body, skin layers protect humans from UV exposure from the sun. If one decides to sunbathe without sunscreen protection too much, the risk of developing skin cancer goes up over your lifetime. Your skin sacrifices itself to protect your more vulnerable internal organs.

Now, take that information and put developing blood cells into the mix with the radiation. Not a good combo if you do not do it exactly right. It was developed in the 1940s before we fully understood the effects of radiation upon the human body. At the time, you could go into a shoe store and have your feet x-rayed to see if your new shoes fit correctly. That process was banned in 1971 because too many shoe workers died from rare cancers via x-ray exposure is the workplace. Should we go back to having our feet x-rayed again when we know what it could do?

Radiation is a double edged sword. It can help diagnose and treat many things, but one has to weigh the risk involved.



jimmy m
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27 Apr 2020, 11:53 am

Oh Noooooooooooo. Now we are all going to wear women's pantyhose over our heads!! !

Researchers at Northeastern University in Boston determined that wearing pantyhose over a mask could help to filter out more airborne particles when compared to wearing a mask alone.

The pantyhose creates a snugger fit around the wearer’s face, sealing in the loose edges of the masks, said Loretta Fernandez, an assistant professor of civil and environmental engineering at Northeastern University and one of the study’s authors.

For the study, researchers determined the percent particle removal for 10 homemade, fabric masks “of different designs, with and without filter layers, as well as three commercially-produced surgical-type masks.” They noted that “N95 masks were used to validate the method, and a 3M model 1826 surgical mask was used as a baseline for comparison of other masks of this style.”

They used an instrument called a PortaCount to measure how well the masks filtered out air particles, ranging from 20 nanometers to 1,000 nanometers, according to NPR. (For context, SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, is about 60 to 140 nanometers in diameter.)

When testing a 3M surgical mask, for instance, the researchers determined that without the pantyhose, the mask blocked out 75 percent of small particles. With the added pantyhose layer, however, some 90 percent of small particles were blocked.

"Adding a layer that keeps the mask tight to the face is going to improve the function of any of these masks," Fernandez told NPR. “How well they protect us is not only a matter of what material we're using to do the filtering but also how well [the mask] seals to the face, so that we're trying to avoid air making it around the mask into our breathing zone."

The findings come as more states mandate some sort of facial covering while running essential errands, which is in line with recently updated Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidelines.

As for homemade fabric masks, when worn with pantyhose, performance increased between 15 and 50 percent, the researchers found. When worn alone, these masks blocked 30 percent or less of particles.

To add the pantyhose layer, researchers cut a ring of material from one leg of the stockings, about 8 to 10 inches from top to bottom, according to NPR.

Source: Upgrade your homemade coronavirus face mask by adding this basic clothing item

I wonder if I followed their advice, if I would be shot on sight. I have seen too many crime movies where bank robbers show up wearing pantyhose over their heads as a disguise when they rob a bank.

Or maybe I could pair this approach with a T-shirt that reads:
On the front side: Escaped Home Quarantine.
And on the back side: Don't You Love the Smell of Used Women's Pantyhose.


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Last edited by jimmy m on 27 Apr 2020, 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jimmy m
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27 Apr 2020, 11:59 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
I see an additional benefit to this [pulse oximeter] testing method, Jimmy.

It would also likely catch a few early COPD cases in the mix, as their oxygen levels would be low from the effects of smoking damaging their health. That is not a bad thing to check for. They have a better chance of survival if it is caught early on and they change their lifestyle choices. I could see two lines for the test, one for smokers (for tobacco and others) and one line for non-smokers. Those with COPD (on pure oxygen) would have to be tested differently (thermometer reading).


Good Point!

This method should become a standard test at airports, cruise lines or anywhere you wish to stop the spread of the coronavirus by asymptomatic carriers during a pandemic.


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Karamazov
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27 Apr 2020, 12:21 pm

That was an interesting article you shared at 1:51pm jimmy: I think the author might be onto something with the variegated approach across different local areas (I’ve thought something similar about the implementation of economic policies in my country: but that’s off topic so... say no more :wink: )

I particularly enjoyed reading the last section on education: it parallels some of my fathers thoughts on the subject (retired headmaster: now doing a doctoral programme in education as a mature student).



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27 Apr 2020, 7:00 pm

We Still Don’t Know How the Coronavirus Is Killing Us

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Over the last few weeks, the country has managed to stabilize the spread of the coronavirus sufficiently enough to begin debating when and in what ways to “reopen,” and to normalize, against all moral logic, the horrifying and ongoing death toll — thousands of Americans dying each day, in multiples of 9/11 every week now with the virus seemingly “under control.” The death rate is no longer accelerating, but holding steady, which is apparently the point at which an onrushing terror can begin fading into background noise. Meanwhile, the disease itself appears to be shape-shifting before our eyes.

In an acute column published April 13, the New York Times’ Charlie Warzel listed 48 basic questions that remain unanswered about the coronavirus and what must be done to protect ourselves against it, from how deadly it is to how many people caught it and shrugged it off to how long immunity to the disease lasts after infection (if any time at all). “Despite the relentless, heroic work of doctors and scientists around the world,” he wrote, “there’s so much we don’t know.” The 48 questions he listed, he was careful to point out, did not represent a comprehensive list. And those are just the coronavirus’s “known unknowns.”

In the two weeks since, we’ve gotten some clarifying information on at least a handful of Warzel’s queries.

ut there is one big question that didn’t even make it onto Warzel’s list that has only gotten more mysterious in the weeks since: How is COVID-19 actually killing us?

We are now almost six months into this pandemic, which began in November in Wuhan, with 50,000 Americans dead and 200,000 more around the world. If each of those deaths is a data point, together they represent a quite large body of evidence from which to form a clear picture of the pandemic threat. Early in the epidemic, the coronavirus was seen as a variant of a familiar family of disease, not a mysterious ailment, however infectious and concerning. But while uncertainties at the population level confuse and frustrate public-health officials, unsure when and in what form to shift gears out of lockdowns, the disease has proved just as mercurial at the clinical level, with doctors revising their understanding of COVID-19’s basic pattern and weaponry — indeed often revising that understanding in different directions at once. The clinical shape of the disease, long presumed to be a relatively predictable respiratory infection, is getting less clear by the week. Lately, it seems, by the day. As Carl Zimmer, probably the country’s most respected science journalist, asked virologists in a tweet last week, “is there any other virus out there that is this weird in terms of its range of symptoms?”

ou probably have a sense of the range of common symptoms, and a sense that the range isn’t that weird: fever, dry cough, and shortness of breath have been, since the beginning of the outbreak, the familiar, oft-repeated group of tell-tale signs. But while the CDC does list fever as the top symptom of COVID-19, so confidently that for weeks patients were turned away from testing sites if they didn’t have an elevated temperature, according to the Journal of the American Medical Association, as many as 70 percent of patients sick enough to be admitted to New York State’s largest hospital system did not have a fever.

Over the past few months, Boston’s Brigham and Women’s Hospital has been compiling and revising, in real time, treatment guidelines for COVID-19 which have become a trusted clearinghouse of best-practices information for doctors throughout the country. According to those guidelines, as few as 44 percent of coronavirus patients presented with a fever (though, in their meta-analysis, the uncertainty is quite high, with a range of 44 to 94 percent). Cough is more common, according to Brigham and Women’s, with between 68 percent and 83 percent of patients presenting with some cough — though that means as many as three in ten sick enough to be hospitalized won’t be coughing. As for shortness of breath, the Brigham and Women’s estimate runs as low as 11 percent. The high end is only 40 percent, which would still mean that more patients hospitalized for COVID-19 do not have shortness of breath than do. At the low end of that range, shortness of breath would be roughly as common among COVID-19 patients as confusion (9 percent), headache (8 to 14 percent), and nausea and diarrhea (3 to 17 percent). That the ranges are so wide themselves tells you that the disease is presenting in very different ways in different hospitals and different populations of different patients — leading, for instance, some doctors and scientists to theorize the virus might be attacking the immune system like HIV does, with many others finding the disease is triggering something like the opposite response, an overwhelming overreaction of the immune system called a “cytokine storm.”

The most bedeviling confusion has arisen around the relationship of the disease to breathing, lung function, and oxygenation levels in the blood — typically, for a respiratory illness, a quite predictable relationship. But for weeks now, front-line doctors have been expressing confusion that so many coronavirus patients were registering lethally low blood-oxygenation levels while still appearing, by almost any vernacular measure, pretty okay. It’s one reason they’ve begun rethinking the initial clinical focus on ventilators, which are generally recommended when patients oxygenation falls below a certain level, but seemed, after a few weeks, of unclear benefit to COVID-19 patients, who may have done better, doctors began to suggest, on lesser or different forms of oxygen support. For a while, ventilators were seen so much as the essential tool in treating life-threatening coronavirus that shortages (and the president’s unwillingness to invoke the Defense Production Act to manufacture them quickly) became a scandal. But by one measure 88 percent of New York patients put on ventilators, for whom an outcome as known, had died. In China, the figure was 86 percent.

But for weeks now, front-line doctors have been expressing confusion that so many coronavirus patients were registering lethally low blood-oxygenation levels while still appearing, by almost any vernacular measure, pretty okay.


On April 20 in the New York Times, an ER doctor named Richard Levitan who had been volunteering at Bellevue proposed that the phenomenon of seemingly stable patients registering lethally low oxygen levels might be explained by “silent hypoxia” — the air sacs in the lung collapsing, not getting stiff or heavy with fluid, as is the case with the pneumonias doctors had been using as models in their treatment of COVID-19. But whether this explanation is universal, limited to the patients at Bellevue, or somewhere in between is not yet entirely clear. A couple of days later, in a pre-print paper others questioned, scientists reported finding that the ability of the disease to mutate has been “vastly underestimated” — investigating the disease as it appeared in just 11 patients, they said they found 30 mutations. “The most aggressive strains could generate 270 times as much viral load as the weakest type,” the South China Morning-Post reported. “These strains also killed the cells the fastest.”

That same day, the Washington Post reported on another theory gaining traction among American doctors treating the disease — that one key could be the way COVID-19 affects the blood of patients, producing much more clotting. “Autopsies have shown that some people’s lungs are filled with hundreds of microclots,” the Post reported. “Errant blood clots of a larger size can break off and travel to the brain or heart, causing a stroke or a heart attack.”

But the bigger-picture perspective the newspaper offered is perhaps more eye-opening and to the point:

One month ago, as the country went into lockdown to prepare for the first wave of coronavirus cases, many doctors felt confident that they knew what they were dealing with. Based on early reports, covid-19 appeared to be a standard variety respiratory virus, albeit a very contagious and lethal one with no vaccine and no treatment. But they’ve since become increasingly convinced that covid-19 attacks not only the lungs, but also the kidneys, heart, intestines, liver and brain.


“Despite the more than 1,000 papers now spilling into journals and onto preprint servers every week,” Science concluded, “a clear picture is elusive, as the virus acts like no pathogen humanity has ever seen.”

In a single illuminating chart, Science lists the following organs as being vulnerable to COVID-19: brain, eyes, nose, lungs, heart, blood vessels, livers, kidneys, intestines. That is to say, nearly every organ:


On April 15, the Washington Post reported that, in New York and Wuhan, between 14 and 30 percent of ICU patients had lost kidney function, requiring dialysis. New York hospitals were treating so much kidney failure “they need more personnel who can perform dialysis and have issued an urgent call for volunteers from other parts of the country. They also are running dangerously short of the sterile fluids used to deliver that therapy.” The result, the Post said, was rationed care: patients needing 24-hour support getting considerably less. On Saturday, the paper reported that “[y]oung and middle-aged people, barely sick with COVID-19, are dying from strokes.” Many of the patients described didn’t even know they were sick.

It’s not unheard of, of course, for a disease to express itself in complicated or hard-to-parse ways, attacking or undermining the functioning of a variety of organs. And it’s common, as researchers and doctors scramble to map the shape of a new disease, for their understanding to evolve quite quickly. But the degree to which doctors and scientists are, still, feeling their way, as though blindfolded, toward a true picture of the disease cautions against any sense that things have stabilized, given that our knowledge of the disease hasn’t even stabilized. Perhaps more importantly, it’s a reminder that the coronavirus pandemic is not just a public-health crisis but a scientific one as well. And that as deep as it may feel we are into the coronavirus, with tens of thousands dead and literally billions in precautionary lockdown, we are still in the very early stages, when each new finding seems as likely to cloud or complicate our understanding of the coronavirus as it is to clarify it. Instead, confidence gives way to uncertainty.

In the space of a few months, we’ve gone from thinking there was no “asymptomatic transmission” to believing it accounts for perhaps half or more of all cases, from thinking the young were invulnerable to thinking they were just somewhat less vulnerable, from believing masks were unnecessary to requiring their use at all times outside the house, from panicking about ventilator shortages to deploying pregnancy massage pillows instead. Six months since patient zero, we still have no drugs proven to even help treat the disease. Almost certainly, we are past the “Rare Cancer Seen in 41 Homosexuals” stage of this pandemic. But how far past?


Bolding and italics = mine

Terrifying stuff.

And this is why I can't dismiss out of hand the conspiracy theories that got out of a lab or is a bioweapon.


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27 Apr 2020, 9:14 pm

That's very scary ASPMe.

I believe the current Covid19 tests only detect the virus if it happens to be in the nasopharyngeal / oropharyngeal area at that precise time, and the swab happens to hit the exact area of infection. I'm sure many people have the virus ingested through the digestive system rather than the airway, or likewise it enters the eyes directly into the bloodstream / brain. I wish they would increase the scope of tests to include people who have atypical presentation to avoid false negatives. Thousands of deaths by kidney failure, heart attack, stroke, and other non-respiratory afflictions have failed to be counted in the fatality tallies, because our current method of testing is respiratory-specific. I wish they would invent blood or endoscopic tests for people with unusual symptoms, not to find antibodies but to identify the virus as it manifests.


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kraftiekortie
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27 Apr 2020, 9:53 pm

In NYC, deaths from COVID19 are counted whether the person actually tested positive, or whether the person exhibited probable COVID symptoms before death.



lliam420
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27 Apr 2020, 9:56 pm

it sounds like they're deciding anything wrong with someone was caused by cvirus

"Each year, approximately 795,000 people suffer a stroke. About 600,000 of these are first attacks"

but now they're saying stokes are caused by cvirus



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27 Apr 2020, 9:58 pm

lliam420 wrote:
it sounds like they're deciding anything wrong with someone was caused by cvirus

"Each year, approximately 795,000 people suffer a stroke. About 600,000 of these are first attacks"

but now they're saying stokes are caused by cvirus


But they're not claiming all strokes are cv. The claim has been that cv infection can cause dysfunction in blood clotting, making strokes more likely after infection. At least that's been my understanding so far.


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27 Apr 2020, 9:59 pm

They are saying that strokes in YOUNG PEOPLE might be caused by COVID. There have been many people under 40 suffering strokes.

I wish this was just a “bad flu”—but it isn’t.



lliam420
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27 Apr 2020, 10:08 pm

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have reported a steep increase in strokes among people in their 30s and 40s - Sep 3, 2012"



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27 Apr 2020, 10:20 pm

I wish you could talk to some doctors in NYC, or hang out in an emergency room there.

You just might get a different impression.



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27 Apr 2020, 10:25 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
lliam420 wrote:
it sounds like they're deciding anything wrong with someone was caused by cvirus

"Each year, approximately 795,000 people suffer a stroke. About 600,000 of these are first attacks"

but now they're saying stokes are caused by cvirus


But they're not claiming all strokes are cv. The claim has been that cv infection can cause dysfunction in blood clotting, making strokes more likely after infection. At least that's been my understanding so far.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/entertai ... index.html

There are also reports of blood clots leading to amputations, like this unfortunate Broadway star. ^

:(


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lliam420
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27 Apr 2020, 10:26 pm

weren't you just saying in nyc they're counting every medical problem and death as being cvirus?



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27 Apr 2020, 10:31 pm

Where did I say that?

They are counting people who tested positive for COVID19, and those who are seen as being “probable” for COVID19.

I want this to be a “bad flu,” too. Trust me. I wish it was.



lliam420
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27 Apr 2020, 10:37 pm

ok they're counting every medical problem and death being because of cvirus if they think it's a possibility. that's overdiagnosis