Woman calls cops another Black Jogger
CockneyRebel
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Gender: Male
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Location: In my own little country
cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
That's an interesting point. On the one hand there is a prejudice, irrespective of power and on the other hand there is a toxic combination of prejudice and power. These two phenomena should have their own separate words, since they both deserve a separate discussion. I thought racism refers to the former and you think it refers to the latter.
Prejudice is not the same as racism. You can be prejudiced against somebody and it may have nothing to do with race. For example you can have a prejudice against poor people or homeless people. Likewise a Chinese person may have prejudice against a white person but if a chinese person called a white person a racist name the white person will likely laugh because its not racist if the person does not feel inferior.
That I agree with, but that has nothing to do with the power component. The way I see it is:
Prejudice = When you judge representatives of various groups based on your inherent assumption about these groups, instead of looking at them as individuals
Racism = A specific brand of prejudice when the groups in question happen to be various races
Neither of these two things have to do with power. Its all about belife/opinion/attitude, not the "power" of whoever holds that belief/opinion/attitude.
cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
But in any case, if you say that in order to be racist one has to have power, then how can David Duke be racist if he has no power (no real chance to be elected any more)?
Duke invokes "White privilege"
Then you probably haven't read his works or watched his videos. In his videos he never says "whites have priviledge so they deserve it". Rather he says "blacks have priviledge that they don't deserve". That doesn't sound like envoking white priviledge.
In any case, what I was trying to say is that since nobody outside of fringe takes David Duke seriously, he doesn't have any real power. Yet he is taken to be racist. So that should show that one doesn't need to have power in order to be racist.
cyberdad wrote:
I'll answer sequentially
i) No but
ii)wouldn't that have been her first defence when pleading her case to her employer? she's being playing the sympathy card and damsel in distress card but Amy Cooper has never played the mental illness card (yet)
i) No but
ii)wouldn't that have been her first defence when pleading her case to her employer? she's being playing the sympathy card and damsel in distress card but Amy Cooper has never played the mental illness card (yet)
I disagree with people that invoked possibility of autism or anxiety disorder to her defense since there is no evidence for it. However, this doesn't change the fact that she was scared because she was a woman, he was a man, she was alone, and he was saying he will do something that she won't like.
cyberdad wrote:
iii) The court of online public opinion works like this - if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...then it's a...(fill in the blank)
Well, it goes both ways. When you look at those videos you say "its obvious she was the one making a threat" while when I look at them I say "its obvious that she is threatened". And ironically we are looking at the same exact thing. You are looking at her strangling the dog to say she was aggressive. I am looking at her strangling the dog to say she was scared (nobody would scream and desperately hold the dog like that unless they are pushed on the edge with fear).
cyberdad wrote:
iv) It doesn't add up, she can't be feeling threatened but then aggressively approach him threatening him. A normal person would run away from the scene if they were really getting threatened by a tall black man.
If she walks away the dog would go to his bisquits.
cyberdad wrote:
v) I would remove myself from a situation where I felt both myself and my dog were under threat, I would not drag my dog and strangle it
The purpose of strangling the dog was to keep it from going to his bisquits. That was probably also the reason why she didn't just walk.
Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
You DID ask for an example of a black person calling the cops on a white person for no reason, which was EXACTLY what he did...The fact that the "white person" didn't exist doesn't change the facts regarding what he did.
You seem to have not provided a valid reason why the police consider it justifiable that Amy Cooper is being charged and Christian Cooper is not.
Police didn't.
A fame-seeking Democrat prosecutor did.
Ms Cooper was charged under an existing false-report law that has been already long been on the books and does not reference race. If the police objected then it would not go forward.
The prosecutor is trying Amy Cooper under a new law, which the Governor also signed last month, holds an individual who makes such calls liable "for injunctive relief, damages, or any other appropriate relief" in a civil lawsuit.
The only issue is what sentence she receives which is based on whether a judge agrees on the two items she is being charged with. My guess she will get some community service or education program.
For those interested, the following video has her lawyer (who does a lot of civil rights cases) discussing the case and the actual charge she is facing, along with why he decided to take the case:
For those not interested in watching:
She was charged under sub-section 3 of the false reporting section:
Quote:
A person is guilty of falsely reporting an incident in the third degree when, knowing the information reported, conveyed or circulated to be false or baseless, he or she:
3. Gratuitously reports to a law enforcement officer or agency (a) the alleged occurrence of an offense or incident which did not in fact occur; or (b) an allegedly impending occurrence of an offense or incident which in fact is not about to occur; or (c) false information relating to an actual offense or incident or to the alleged implication of some person therein;
3. Gratuitously reports to a law enforcement officer or agency (a) the alleged occurrence of an offense or incident which did not in fact occur; or (b) an allegedly impending occurrence of an offense or incident which in fact is not about to occur; or (c) false information relating to an actual offense or incident or to the alleged implication of some person therein;
As to the reason for taking the case, one major reason was related to involuntary filming of private citizens in public places and how it could affect someone like his nephew who has Autism, and how filming people like his nephew when he is having issues with emotion control could cause harm to his nephew if posted online, as NT's (and others) would jump to judge based on what, to them, would be "normal" expected behaviour [1] (a bit over 13 minutes in from where link starts).
[1] Much as people here are rushing to judge her reaction to the actions and words that were reported as having been spoken prior to the filming commencing, without all the facts... I wonder how they would feel, if they were on the spectrum (being that we have some NT's here, too), and were filmed having a meltdown\anxiety related reaction to something and this was posted online, with the world judging them solely on a minute or so of footage of this meltdown\reaction, and no context\background being presented.
I haven't heard of his nephew having autism. But then again I wasn't really paying attention to this outside of this thread. Do you have any links that talk about it?
In any case, as far as I recall, the man was the one who was filming. So if the issue is the man's nephew rather than the womans, I don't see how you can really say that one party is hurting the other party. More like the man hurting his own nephew.
ASPartOfMe
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cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Nowhere does it say blacks can't be racist. By this definition saying that only whites can have the negative trait of being a racist is a racist statement.
http://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism
Doesn't work AS
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/09/can-whit ... -12340542/
Racism doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It exists within a hierarchical structure with power at its core. Racism only works because one group has power and other groups do not.
These new expanded definitions are just there to weaponize the term and to invalidate critics.
So according to this definition if I live in an all black neighborhood and I am discriminated against by the powers that be am I a victim of racism or is that impossible because I am white?
These successful attempts at weaponizing the definition approaches the real problem completely the wrong way. The problem is not an unfair white privilege you are automatically born into, it is that if you are a minority of any kind it is MUCH MORE LIKELY you will be at an unfair disadvantages. Those disadvantages run the gamet from the majority thinking another way meaning you have to go through many more steps to accomplish what you want to intentional, unintentional, and institutional discrimination against you. If you are in the minority you have a much greater chance of being treated as you should be or better then you should be, if you are a member of a minority you have a much greater chance of being treated unfairly. I have oft discussed this concept in the Autism politics section. Blacks can be racist, autistics can be ableist. There is no innate white or NT privilege.
I will agree with the article on one point there is no such thing as reverse racism, it is just racism. Yes conservatives most certainly can weaponize language also.
By saying incorrectly one group as a whole is racist and the other can’t be you give reasons for people to ignore their prejudices and unfair and discriminatory actions. You put the majority on the defensive by quilt tripping them and you tell minorities that in the end the system will always stacked against you which will further add to the psychologically damage you have from whatever discrimination you have been a victim of.
Most importantly it undercuts the goal of ending discrimination and prejudice against individuals because of their groups by defining a trait you can or can not have because you are a member of a group.
_________________
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Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
If you are in the minority you have a much greater chance of being treated as you should be or better then you should be, if you are a member of a minority you have a much greater chance of being treated unfairly. I have oft discussed this concept in the Autism politics section. Blacks can be racist, autistics can be ableist. There is no innate white or NT privilege.
I agree with you here. This reminds me of what few different people mentioned in few different occasions: if there was a planet where the majority were autistics then autism would be a norm and being an NT would be a disability. They would probably come up with some diagnosis that NT-s would be diagnosed with.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I will agree with the article on one point there is no such thing as reverse racism, it is just racism.
I think there "is" reverse racism: it is one of the sub-kinds of racism. I mean, racism can have different motives. So it makes perfect sense to break it up into different kinds depending on the motive. One of the motives -- namely trying to undo the perceived injustice by introducing the opposite injustice -- would be a reverse racism.
Its true though that one can't automatically assume that "plain racism" is automatically white-on-black while reverse racism is automatically black-on-white. If you look at the rhetoric of either side, each of them claim to be discriminated against and are trying to oppose perceived discrimination. Now, we can argue all day as to whose perception is right and whose is wrong. But the point remains that they both "think" they are being discriminated against, so they both engage in "reverse racism" in some way.
That doesn't mean that reverse racism is the only kind of racism, it isn't. For example, eugenics would "not" fall under this category. But still reverse racism can be thought of as "one of the brands" of racism.
CockneyRebel wrote:
That woman seems like a racist, little b!tch to me.
She appears to have people interaction problems.
“The only thing I’ll tell you is she never spoke directly to a person. She always spoke through her dog, and in a baby voice,” Mead told the outlet.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/central-p ... ed-report/
That's weird.
However, the "I'm going to tell them you're African American" may just seem racist, because maybe this is how she deflects people interactions.
Maybe she desperately hates interacting with people so much that she uses whatever means she can to avoid it.
_________________
Then a hero comes along, with the strength to carry on, and you cast your fears aside, and you know you can survive.
Be the hero of your life.
kraftiekortie wrote:
I care if a black person calls me a “honkie” or a “white boy”—probably not as much as when a black person is called the “N” word for excellent, historic reasons—but it does upset me.
“Whitefella” from an Aborigine is not the same as “cracker” from an African-American....or is it?
“Whitefella” from an Aborigine is not the same as “cracker” from an African-American....or is it?
Aboriginal people are never racist toward anyone. Or at least I have never experienced it.
QFT wrote:
Then you probably haven't read his works or watched his videos. In his videos he never says "whites have priviledge so they deserve it". Rather he says "blacks have priviledge that they don't deserve". That doesn't sound like envoking white priviledge.
I have read his readings and he believes in "white superiority". He is an intellectual but is strongly influenced by confirmation bias pertaining to his beliefs. He and his ilk believe in "race war" where the previously oppressed have been given too much benefits by the "all powerful" white man after decolonisation.
Like his hero Adolph Hitler he believes the fall of the Aryans in India is historical precedent for what will happen to the west in future if immigration isn't stopped and segregation is not reintroduced.
QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I'll answer sequentially
i) No but
ii)wouldn't that have been her first defence when pleading her case to her employer? she's being playing the sympathy card and damsel in distress card but Amy Cooper has never played the mental illness card (yet)
i) No but
ii)wouldn't that have been her first defence when pleading her case to her employer? she's being playing the sympathy card and damsel in distress card but Amy Cooper has never played the mental illness card (yet)
I disagree with people that invoked possibility of autism or anxiety disorder to her defense since there is no evidence for it. However, this doesn't change the fact that she was scared because she was a woman, he was a man, she was alone, and he was saying he will do something that she won't like.
cyberdad wrote:
iii) The court of online public opinion works like this - if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...then it's a...(fill in the blank)
Well, it goes both ways. When you look at those videos you say "its obvious she was the one making a threat" while when I look at them I say "its obvious that she is threatened". And ironically we are looking at the same exact thing. You are looking at her strangling the dog to say she was aggressive. I am looking at her strangling the dog to say she was scared (nobody would scream and desperately hold the dog like that unless they are pushed on the edge with fear).
cyberdad wrote:
iv) It doesn't add up, she can't be feeling threatened but then aggressively approach him threatening him. A normal person would run away from the scene if they were really getting threatened by a tall black man.
If she walks away the dog would go to his bisquits.
cyberdad wrote:
v) I would remove myself from a situation where I felt both myself and my dog were under threat, I would not drag my dog and strangle it
The purpose of strangling the dog was to keep it from going to his bisquits. That was probably also the reason why she didn't just walk.
Three things QFT
1) Anxiety can be a state of mind rather than a diagnosable trait. Amy Cooper apologised but tried to use state anxiety as a reason for her over reaction. However she seemed in calm control when making her fake phone call.
2) The dog was on leash so how could it eat the biscuits?
3) If the dog was on leash and she was alone then why didn't she leave instead of staying there?
cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
Then you probably haven't read his works or watched his videos. In his videos he never says "whites have priviledge so they deserve it". Rather he says "blacks have priviledge that they don't deserve". That doesn't sound like envoking white priviledge.
I have read his readings and he believes in "white superiority". He is an intellectual but is strongly influenced by confirmation bias pertaining to his beliefs. He and his ilk believe in "race war" where the previously oppressed have been given too much benefits by the "all powerful" white man after decolonisation.
Like his hero Adolph Hitler he believes the fall of the Aryans in India is historical precedent for what will happen to the west in future if immigration isn't stopped and segregation is not reintroduced.
The point is that he has no power. Since you said one has to be in a position of power to be racist, then by that definition he won't be racist -- and all of his beliefs would be a moot point. Since you clearly think he "is" racist, then you have to admit that it "is" possible to be racist without being in a position of power, which is the point I was trying to make.
cyberdad wrote:
1) Anxiety can be a state of mind rather than a diagnosable trait. Amy Cooper apologised but tried to use state anxiety as a reason for her over reaction.
She "did" have anxiety as a "state of mind at the moment" but she didn't have "anxiety disorder".
Her "state of mind" was triggered by her being a female alone with much bigger male who said he will do something she won't like. Any other female in this situation would be in a "state of anxiety" too.
cyberdad wrote:
However she seemed in calm control when making her fake phone call.
On these videos she did *not* look calm at all. She was screaming, frantically trying to hold her dog. That looks rather anxious to me.
cyberdad wrote:
2) The dog was on leash so how could it eat the biscuits?
The dog was "not" on the leash. I thought that was the entire context of the whole encounter.
cyberdad wrote:
3) If the dog was on leash and she was alone then why didn't she leave instead of staying there?
Because the dog was not on the leash.
