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BTDT
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17 May 2020, 7:55 pm

The Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act, signed by the President on March 27, 2020, includes a $100 billion fund intended to support health care providers.



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17 May 2020, 8:41 pm

blazingstar wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
In the US, many (maybe most) cannot afford to seek treatment for COVID-19.

Is there any programs for that? For people with minimal health insurance?


All testing and treatment for covid 19 is supposed to be free, but there are catches to that. For example, if the doctor doesn’t order a covid 19 test, it doesn’t pay. Even if there are no tests available. I’m sure there are other catches as well.

The concern is if you need treatment.

Your health insurance may not cover it.

After battling COVID-19, survivors may have to fight big medical bills
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-h ... treatment/


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17 May 2020, 8:44 pm

Oh, I found this ...

"The Trump administration has mandated that all comprehensive health insurance plans must pay for 100% of the cost of coronavirus testing as well as the visit to the ER, doctor's office or urgent care center that may have led to that testing. Definitive as that sounds, however, there are gray areas".

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-h ... treatment/


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17 May 2020, 11:31 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Oh, I found this ...

"The Trump administration has mandated that all comprehensive health insurance plans must pay for 100% of the cost of coronavirus testing as well as the visit to the ER, doctor's office or urgent care center that may have led to that testing. Definitive as that sounds, however, there are gray areas".

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-h ... treatment/


That can't be right.
The President is an orange ogre who wouldn't do such a benevolent thing. :scratch:

But you say there are grey areas.
Don't you mean they are actually orange? :mrgreen:



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18 May 2020, 1:01 am



magz
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18 May 2020, 4:30 am

jimmy m wrote:
New York City is a hot spot for the infection. As the infection set in, many of the wealthy and elites fled the city. Some of them carried it with them and spread it to other regions. I mentioned a few weeks ago that many of the New York Elites were fleeing to Hawaii.

So one of the article today NYC tourist arrested in Hawaii after posting Instagram beach pics instead of quarantining

The individual was Tarique Peters, 23, of the Bronx. Passengers on trans-Pacific flights have their temperatures taken upon arrival at Hawaiian airports and are required to sign a document confirming they are aware they must self-quarantine for 14 days. “By signing the legal document, they acknowledge they understand violating the order is a criminal offense and they are subject to a $5,000 fine and/or a year imprisonment,” Peters arrived at O‘ahu on Monday and posted numerous pictures of himself on Instagram. One showed him on Honolulu's famed Waikiki Beach. He allegedly left his hotel room the day he arrived and traveled to many places using public transportation.

“Authorities became aware of his social media posts from citizens who saw posts of him – on the beach with a surfboard, sunbathing, and walking around Waikiki at night,” the governor's office said. So he was arrested because he was visiting the beaches when he should have been complying with the laws and remain in quarantine.
-----------------------------
It seems that the disease was spread by the real social elite - politicians, sports stars, actors. They were the initial spreaders bringing death and devastation into the cities of the common man.

As the coronavirus has spread out of China, there's been an interesting pattern about who is getting infected. Oftentimes in outbreaks - take cholera, for example - the disease devastates low-income neighborhoods first. It's far more likely to turn up in densely populated working-class areas than at a country club, say. COVID-19 seems to be behaving differently. Once it departed from China, the global spread of the virus has touched the highest echelons of society.

One of the first major clusters in Europe in late January was among these 21 people at a ski resort in France. And one of them had come over from Singapore. And he appears to be the one that carried the virus with him to France. And this group of ski buddies then all dispersed. And some of them went to the U.K. And some went to Spain. And others went to other parts of France. Thirteen of those 21 ended up testing positive.

Some of the very first cases in Hong Kong - they turned up at the Four Seasons Hotel and the W {Hong Kong?] Hotel. These are some of the most expensive hotels in Hong Kong.

Source: COVID-19's Global Spread Among The Relatively Rich Has Been Remarkable

How many actors, producers, musicians, politician and the wealthy have been infected so far. Some die and their names are noted in the daily news. IMHO this elite class of individuals feel they are exceptions, they are above the law. The law doesn't apply to them.

Hawaii has grim prospects anyway - dependent on tourism, importers of basic food, they are not well equipped to deal with a global disruption :(
However, outbreak-wise, they're doing really well.


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18 May 2020, 4:34 am

Hawaii has actually fared relatively well as far as COVID cases and deaths are concerned.

But the hit to its economy has been considerable.



magz
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18 May 2020, 6:53 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Hawaii has actually fared relatively well as far as COVID cases and deaths are concerned.

But the hit to its economy has been considerable.

If they stay caucious, they may remain relatively open and keep new infections at bay. As long as there are little local infections, large scale lockdowns wouldn't be necessary, only caucious control on whatever and whoever is arriving.


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18 May 2020, 6:59 am

jimmy m wrote:
BTDT wrote:
It is common knowledge that meat packing plants commonly employ illegal immigrants because nobody else will take those jobs. Which means that if you aren't working you aren't getting paid. With this sort of culture I'd expect workers to continue working even when they know they are sick. Not working isn't an option. Which means you need the sort of PPE that will take the very highest viral loading possible and still not transmit disease.


But is this the case in Australia?


I didn't think so initially,
But then, there are people who have overstayed their visas.
I don't think it is a big thingie here, in Oz.
More common in America, with the porous American/Mexican border.



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18 May 2020, 7:09 am

Quote:
China admits it destroyed virus samples

China has admitted that it destroyed early samples of the virus that causes COVID-19 but claims to have done so to prevent the pandemic as the origin ...



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18 May 2020, 8:07 am

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/05 ... sivir.html


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18 May 2020, 8:17 am

cyberdad wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
BTDT wrote:
It is common knowledge that meat packing plants commonly employ illegal immigrants because nobody else will take those jobs. Which means that if you aren't working you aren't getting paid. With this sort of culture I'd expect workers to continue working even when they know they are sick. Not working isn't an option. Which means you need the sort of PPE that will take the very highest viral loading possible and still not transmit disease.


But is this the case in Australia?


Cedar meats is a Chinese owned meat works that sells Halal meat to the muslim community. I doubt there's one Australian who works in that facility.
https://cedarmeats.com/history-background/


Interesting! One of the big meat packing plants in the U.S. is owned by China. A Chinese company owns one of the largest U.S. pork producers, Smithfield Foods, which it acquired through a $4.7 billion deal in 2013.

I was wondering in the back of my head if perhaps a Chinese executive (who might have been infected) did a plant visit and brought the infection with him.

-------------------------------------
Smithfield Foods pork-processing plant is located in the town of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. [This is a fairly rural place in the U.S. and not one with high global traffic.] The factory - a massive, eight-story white box perched on the banks of the Big Sioux River - is the ninth-largest hog-processing facility in the US. When running at full capacity, it processes 19,500 freshly-slaughtered hogs per day, slicing, grinding and smoking them into millions of pounds of bacon, hot dogs and spiral-cut hams. With 3,700 workers, it is also the fourth-largest employer in the city.

Apparently the plant at Smithfield Foods developed a coronavirus cluster rather early prior to 25 March and kept it quiet.

By 15 April, when Smithfield finally closed under pressure from the South Dakota governor's office, the plant had become the number one hotspot in the US, with a cluster of 644 confirmed cases among Smithfield employees and people who contracted it from them. In total, Smithfield-related infections account for 55% of the caseload in the state, which is far outpacing its far more populous Midwestern neighbour states in cases per capita. According to the New York Times, the Smithfield Foods case numbers have surpassed the USS Theodore Roosevelt naval ship and the Cook County Jail in Chicago, Illinois.

The workforce at Smithfield is made up largely of immigrants and refugees from places like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Nepal, Congo and El Salvador.

Source: Coronavirus at Smithfield pork plant: The untold story of America's biggest outbreak

Since many of the meat processing plants are rural and many have become coronavirus hot spots, one must ask if the breach of the meat processing plants was intentional. The goal being to break the food processing chain in the U.S. Did the various plants in the U.S. host Chinese visitors in the months preceding the plant outbreaks?

Also if it was intentional, was it global. Did other countries also experience viral hotspots in their meat/food precessing centers? So the infection in the meat processing plant in Australia might be another piece of the puzzle.


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Last edited by jimmy m on 18 May 2020, 8:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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18 May 2020, 8:36 am

If you wash and cook food it should go away right? It isn't transferred through normal drinking water etc?


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18 May 2020, 8:59 am

blooiejagwa wrote:
If you wash and cook food it should go away right? It isn't transferred through normal drinking water etc?


That is two separate questions.

If you wash and cook food it should go away right? If you cook your food generally the high temperature will kill any viruses. But this may not be the case for uncooked foods, such as salads. But the environment (wind and sunlight) will reduce the threat quickly, so even eating salads in the time of the coronavirus is probably not a significant threat.

It isn't transferred through normal drinking water etc? One of the forms of testing currently used to track the spread of the coronavirus is to analyze waste water in the waste treatment systems. So it will travel in sewers and therefore also water. But most city dwellers use city water. This is water that is generally treated to remove dangerous particles. So I suspect tap water should be safe. Also those in rural areas use well water, water right beneath their homes that have been treated by hundreds of miles of natural filtration underground. This is very safe.

They sell small UVC water sanitizers that can kill viruses in water. You might find these in a prepper store. But unless you are drinking water right out of a creek or river, it is probably not worth the investment. Also there are various ceramic filters that can filter viruses out of water. Campers and preppers will sometimes use these. Or if you live in parts of the world where drinking water supplies can become contaminated, then this can be a threat.


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18 May 2020, 9:19 am

THE VULNERABILITY OF NURSING HOMES

As more and better data are collected, it's becoming increasingly apparent that many of COVID-19’s deaths -- if not the majority -- are to be found in nursing homes. That should be no surprise. After all, this is where we house the increasingly frail elderly. The politics of blame and shame have begun to focus on those facilities. But before piling on, what are we really talking about?

Restorative vs. Maintenance Care

First, the term nursing home encompasses a variety of types of care and patient needs. Collectively, they are known as long-term care facilities, and they exist along a spectrum of care from rehabilitation to maintenance; and with a similar range of patients from those needing the confidence of support to those requiring complete care. Many years ago, to reduce costs, we moved the necessary rehabilitation from an illness from expensive hospital beds to less expensive “nursing home” beds. For a majority of these patients, nursing care was supportive, providing help with the Activities of Daily Living (ADLs) for a few weeks until the patient could return to their homes. These are skilled nursing homes. Some patients, not able to fully participate in these rehabilitation activities, were instead placed in “sub-acute” facilities, the same goals, but less intensive, longer stays. Of course, some patients were not candidates for rehabilitation; they required assistance with their ADLs; they ultimately were placed in long-term or assisted-living facilities. A hybrid also developed, known as Continuing Care Retirement Communities (CCRC) that provide housing and services that go from fully independent living to long-term assisted living; those 55+ communities in Florida are the front end of CCRCs.

As the level of maintenance care grows, so does the frailty of the patients; so when a politician or expert speaks to the public about nursing homes, making no distinction of the group’s frailty, that confuses understanding of just who is at risk.

Infections in Long-term Care Facilities

According to the CDC, 4 million Americans are cared for in skilled or sub-acute facilities annually, and another 1 million live permanently in assisted living facilities. More importantly, infections are a big problem in these institutions. No firm numbers are known, the literature suggests anywhere from 1-3 million infections annually and a rate of death from these infections of around 380,000, and this was before COVID-19.

“Residents of LTCFs are of notable risk for influenza infection due to their close proximity with fellow residents and their frequent interactions with health care personnel (HCP) as well as relatives and other visitors.

…NHs/SNFs must maintain infection control and prevention (ICP) programs to comply with the federal regulations governing licensing and certification. …Most NHs/SNFs lack adequately trained and committed personnel and resources for this task.”


This was written in 2013, and not much has changed. The few metrics put in place by the CDC fail to differentiate between facilities with high and low rates of COVID-19 deaths, as I have written about previously.

The CDC identified several factors that increase infectious risk in these patients.

* They were older, 36% over age 85
* They had weaker immune responses, including their response to vaccines
* They had less adequate nutrition
* More coexistent chronic conditions
* Higher risk of adverse reactions to medications because of more significant liver and kidney disease
* Greater exposure to resistant pathogens
* Atypical presentations of their illness, especially when compared with younger individuals. This problem is compounded by the lack of clinical training and expertise among the staff in these facilities compared to hospitals.

Consider this recent study [2] reported in the New England Journal of Medicine about one of the nursing homes in Washington State, a skilled nursing facility where patients were voluntarily tested for COVID-19 on two occasions. Of the 48% who tested positive

* 35% were symptomatic, 8% had atypical symptoms, 56% had no new symptoms other than those of their chronic conditions.
* In the seven days after initial testing, 89% of the “asymptomatic” developed symptoms, when tested they had been “pre-symptomatic”
* Among the staff, 8% were initially positive, and this subsequently rose to 19%; the majority of those employees were nursing staff. As noted in another study of nursing home staff in Washington, 65% of staff continued to work while symptomatic – not out of obligation but an economic necessity.

“Transmission from asymptomatic residents infected with SARS-CoV-2 most likely contributed to the rapid and extensive spread of infection to other residents and staff. Symptom-based infection-control strategies were not sufficient to prevent transmission after the introduction of SARS-CoV-2 into this skilled nursing facility.”

Patients infected with COVID-19, capable of transmitting the disease to others, are frequently pre-symptomatic. The only way to effectively block pre-symptomatic transmission is to treat everyone as infected. Additionally, the findings of the NEJM study are consistent with a study from Taiwan, where 23% of infections were related to contact with healthcare personnel.

“The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.” Vice-President Hubert Humphrey

By that measure, COVID-19 has once again revealed our failure. The healthcare system has been entrusted with caring for our frail, but especially for the elderly; we have provided more custodial than thoughtful, compassionate care. There is nothing new concerning infections in nursing facilities. We have known about these problems and swept them under the rug for years. After a few show trials or investigations, we will sweep them aside once again

Source: [url=https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/05/13/let’s-talk-about-nursing-homes-and-covid-19-14783]Let’s Talk About Nursing Homes And COVID-19[/url]


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18 May 2020, 9:34 am

I think a more plausible explanation of how the virus got to meat packing plants is an American custom known as Spring Break. Colleges shut down and everyone leaves. It is hard for normal people to stay on campus if services shut down. So, even if you don't travel to Florida, you undoubtedly go somewhere, like back to the family home. And it is likely that you will be exposed to the virus on a bus or some other form of mass transit. Especially since there were huge mistakes made, like grouping people for hours in airports. When some of those people had to have been infected. My real world experience suggests that incompetence is much more likely than a conspiracy.

DNA samples, had enough testing been done, may enable researchers to figure it all out. Minor mutations should allow seeing if the virus came directly from China, or by more convoluted paths. On the other hand, suppressing of testing and test results may be the goal of those in power to allow a particular political narrative to go unchallenged.