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ASPartOfMe
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18 May 2020, 10:39 am

Crowds boozing on Upper East Side elicit tough words from Mayor de Blasio

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Mayor de Blasio promised strict enforcement after throngs of New Yorkers were spotted carousing and quaffing cold ones on the Upper East Side Saturday night.

“I'm not comfortable at all with people congregating outside bars,” Hizzoner said at a Sunday press conference.

“If you start to form groups of people and then, you know, two, three, five and then it becomes six, it becomes 10, it becomes 15 — that violates what we're saying about social distancing,” he continued.

The NYPD was unable to provide stats about any arrests or fines given out during the revelry, which was caught on social media and in news reports.

Images showed people buying drinks, forming crowds and blatantly disregarding social-distancing rules — the same guidelines that led to a string of controversial, violent arrests in communities of color.

Faced with widespread outrage over those tactics, de Blasio on Friday said police would stop giving tickets to people who don’t wear face masks in public unless there was a “serious danger.”


De Blasio: New York City preparing to put fencing around its beaches
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New York City is preparing to install fencing to limit access to its beaches over Memorial Day, Mayor Bill de Blasio said Monday, a day after he announced the beaches will be closed during the holiday weekend.

The mayor did not address fears expressed by Nassau and Suffolk officials who are concerned that crowds of New York City residents will flock to Long Island beaches, but he said the city will only put up fencing and issue citations if visitors to Coney Island, Rockaway Beach and other popular summer destinations ignore social distancing restrictions.

“If you want to walk on the beach, fine, enjoy that, but no swimming, no lifeguards, no parties, no barbecues, no sports,” de Blasio said. “It is just open space that you can walk on, take it in and then get back home.”

Long Island elected leaders expressed fears Sunday about a wave of people flooding Nassau and Suffolk beaches that will open in time for the holiday weekend.

Christine Geed, a spokeswoman for Nassau County Executive Laura Curran, called the mayor’s decision to close city beaches “irresponsible and short-sighted.”

“We are one region, but the mayor is effectively skirting his responsibility to safeguard public health by creating an alternate reality where people will not travel over Memorial Day weekend,” Geed said Sunday.


If people are determined to do what they want the government is not going to stop them. The police are not going to go in tear gassing and billy clubbing crowds of social distance violators for a variety of reasons including in New York being branded as racists as they have been, risking their own and their families health, in other areas possible facing armed resistance.

I hope New York does not end up where it was a month ago. There is reason for some optimism as Florida has not seen a big spike from all the spring breakers a while back and so the UV rays at the beaches might mitigate the effect of the crowds. but that does not help at night on the Upper East Side. We are really flying blind here.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 18 May 2020, 11:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

jimmy m
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18 May 2020, 10:52 am

BTDT wrote:
I think a more plausible explanation of how the virus got to meat packing plants is an American custom known as Spring Break. Colleges shut down and everyone leaves.


But most of the individuals that worked in the plants were foreigners (The workforce at Smithfield is made up largely of immigrants and refugees from places like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Nepal, Congo and El Salvador.) I doubt that any of the workers went on Spring Break (or even their children).


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18 May 2020, 11:15 am

jimmy m wrote:
BTDT wrote:
I think a more plausible explanation of how the virus got to meat packing plants is an American custom known as Spring Break. Colleges shut down and everyone leaves.


But most of the individuals that worked in the plants were foreigners (The workforce at Smithfield is made up largely of immigrants and refugees from places like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Nepal, Congo and El Salvador.) I doubt that any of the workers went on Spring Break (or even their children).


But it is likely one or two of them may have gone to a local bar after a hard day of work. And shared the same enclosed area with someone on Spring Break who felt the need to ingest some alcohol. It only takes two people in the same place to spread this disease.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/coron ... index.html
This study suggests that only 15 minutes of close exposure could be relatively safe.
Which means that a visit by a big boss could be OK to the peons being visited.



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18 May 2020, 3:44 pm

Thanks for the thorough response jimmym.


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18 May 2020, 4:10 pm

Image

https://freopp.org/the-covid-19-nursing ... 47433c3f70


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jimmy m
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18 May 2020, 8:54 pm

Back on the subject of meat processing plants. Many plants in Germany are also experiencing coronavirus hot spots in their meat plants.

Coronavirus: Fourth large outbreak at German slaughterhouse

Dozens of people have been infected with the coronavirus at a slaughterhouse in the state of Lower Saxony. Another large coronavirus outbreak was reported at a German slaughterhouse on Monday. In the last two weeks, meat-processing plants have been the site of three other major outbreaks. In the past two weeks, meat-processing plants in the states of Schleswig-Holstein and North Rhine-Westphalia have also had to close after hundreds of workers tested positive for the coronavirus.

Despite the fact that poor working practices and squalid living quarters of these workers, mostly from Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria, have been known for years, until these outbreaks no lawmakers have moved to changed these conditions.

So again the common thread is that meat processing plants employ a large number of immigrants. But many industries employ large numbers of immigrants and do not become coronavirus hot spots. Why is meat processing plants different? Is there a common thread on how patient zero in each hot spot became infected?

According to Wikipedia "By May 5, over 10,000 meatpacking plant workers in 29 states in the U.S. and working at 170 plants had tested positive for the coronavirus. At least 45 of those meat industry workers had died."

This same problem appears in Canada, Australia and Germany. It is also happening in Ireland.

COVID-19 cases confirmed in three Irish meat processing plants

According to reporting in The Irish Times and RTE (Ireland’s national broadcaster), staff in the three meat plants are self-isolating. The infection clusters are stoking fears for the country’s agrifood sector.

A spokesperson for Meat Industry Ireland, an industry group who represent producers, said production levels and processing throughput for the Irish beef industry is down about 20 percent on equivalent weeks in 2018, and down 30 percent compared to early March 2020, before lockdown measures were announced.

Is this just coincidence or is the world's meat production plants being specifically targeted?


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18 May 2020, 8:58 pm

jimmy m wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
BTDT wrote:
It is common knowledge that meat packing plants commonly employ illegal immigrants because nobody else will take those jobs. Which means that if you aren't working you aren't getting paid. With this sort of culture I'd expect workers to continue working even when they know they are sick. Not working isn't an option. Which means you need the sort of PPE that will take the very highest viral loading possible and still not transmit disease.


But is this the case in Australia?


Cedar meats is a Chinese owned meat works that sells Halal meat to the muslim community. I doubt there's one Australian who works in that facility.
https://cedarmeats.com/history-background/


Interesting! One of the big meat packing plants in the U.S. is owned by China. A Chinese company owns one of the largest U.S. pork producers, Smithfield Foods, which it acquired through a $4.7 billion deal in 2013.

I was wondering in the back of my head if perhaps a Chinese executive (who might have been infected) did a plant visit and brought the infection with him.

-------------------------------------
Smithfield Foods pork-processing plant is located in the town of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. [This is a fairly rural place in the U.S. and not one with high global traffic.] The factory - a massive, eight-story white box perched on the banks of the Big Sioux River - is the ninth-largest hog-processing facility in the US. When running at full capacity, it processes 19,500 freshly-slaughtered hogs per day, slicing, grinding and smoking them into millions of pounds of bacon, hot dogs and spiral-cut hams. With 3,700 workers, it is also the fourth-largest employer in the city.

Apparently the plant at Smithfield Foods developed a coronavirus cluster rather early prior to 25 March and kept it quiet.

By 15 April, when Smithfield finally closed under pressure from the South Dakota governor's office, the plant had become the number one hotspot in the US, with a cluster of 644 confirmed cases among Smithfield employees and people who contracted it from them. In total, Smithfield-related infections account for 55% of the caseload in the state, which is far outpacing its far more populous Midwestern neighbour states in cases per capita. According to the New York Times, the Smithfield Foods case numbers have surpassed the USS Theodore Roosevelt naval ship and the Cook County Jail in Chicago, Illinois.

The workforce at Smithfield is made up largely of immigrants and refugees from places like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Nepal, Congo and El Salvador.

Source: Coronavirus at Smithfield pork plant: The untold story of America's biggest outbreak

Since many of the meat processing plants are rural and many have become coronavirus hot spots, one must ask if the breach of the meat processing plants was intentional. The goal being to break the food processing chain in the U.S. Did the various plants in the U.S. host Chinese visitors in the months preceding the plant outbreaks?

Also if it was intentional, was it global. Did other countries also experience viral hotspots in their meat/food precessing centers? So the infection in the meat processing plant in Australia might be another piece of the puzzle.


A valid consideration, imo.



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18 May 2020, 9:14 pm

Quote:
Australian zoos hit with adorable baby boom

The coronavirus pandemic has produced little in the way of good news. But thankfully, animals across the country have been getting busy birthiny many ...



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19 May 2020, 1:46 am

jimmy m wrote:
Back on the subject of meat processing plants. Many plants in Germany are also experiencing coronavirus hot spots in their meat plants.

Coronavirus: Fourth large outbreak at German slaughterhouse

Dozens of people have been infected with the coronavirus at a slaughterhouse in the state of Lower Saxony. Another large coronavirus outbreak was reported at a German slaughterhouse on Monday. In the last two weeks, meat-processing plants have been the site of three other major outbreaks. In the past two weeks, meat-processing plants in the states of Schleswig-Holstein and North Rhine-Westphalia have also had to close after hundreds of workers tested positive for the coronavirus.

Despite the fact that poor working practices and squalid living quarters of these workers, mostly from Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria, have been known for years, until these outbreaks no lawmakers have moved to changed these conditions.

So again the common thread is that meat processing plants employ a large number of immigrants. But many industries employ large numbers of immigrants and do not become coronavirus hot spots. Why is meat processing plants different? Is there a common thread on how patient zero in each hot spot became infected?

According to Wikipedia "By May 5, over 10,000 meatpacking plant workers in 29 states in the U.S. and working at 170 plants had tested positive for the coronavirus. At least 45 of those meat industry workers had died."

This same problem appears in Canada, Australia and Germany. It is also happening in Ireland.

COVID-19 cases confirmed in three Irish meat processing plants

According to reporting in The Irish Times and RTE (Ireland’s national broadcaster), staff in the three meat plants are self-isolating. The infection clusters are stoking fears for the country’s agrifood sector.

A spokesperson for Meat Industry Ireland, an industry group who represent producers, said production levels and processing throughput for the Irish beef industry is down about 20 percent on equivalent weeks in 2018, and down 30 percent compared to early March 2020, before lockdown measures were announced.

Is this just coincidence or is the world's meat production plants being specifically targeted?

I'd rather expect huge meat processing plants simply to be crowded places, with production process inflexible and unsuitable for social distancing, with workers unable to afford missing work if sick.

Intentionally steering outbreaks would require impossible hell of organization. Spontanous outbreaks in crowded plants would require sticking to pre-outbreak habits and organisation.


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19 May 2020, 2:00 am

I'm trying to find information about covid hotspots in my country and I see various human-operated plants: a sewing hall, a furniture factory, a coal mine... full diversity.
Here, we never closed "non-essential" businesses, factories have been operating all the time.

So, my guess is: meat processing plants are the main kind of huge human-operated factories that are considered "essential" and not closed even with the strictest measures.


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19 May 2020, 3:37 am

YouTube censors epidemiologist Knut Wittkowski for opposing lockdown

Big Tech companies are aggressively tamping down on COVID-19 “misinformation” — opinions and ideas contrary to official pronouncements.

Dr. Knut M. Wittkowski, former head of biostatistics, epidemiology and research design at Rockefeller University, says YouTube removed a video of him talking about the virus that had racked up more than 1.3 million views.

Wittkowski, 65, is a ferocious critic of the nation’s current steps to fight the coronavirus. He has derided social distancing, saying it only prolongs the virus’ existence, and has attacked the current lockdown as mostly unnecessary.

Wittkowski, who holds two doctorates in computer science and medical biometry, believes the coronavirus should be allowed to create “herd immunity,” and that short of a vaccine, the pandemic will only end after it has sufficiently spread through the population.


https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/youtube-c ... -lockdown/


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magz
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19 May 2020, 3:47 am

^ This "herd immunity" concept is based on an assumption that covid creates long-term immunity after contracting it.
Currently, there is no evidence supporting or contradicting the assumption - simply because there was too little time to explore the topic.

If covid turns out similar to, say, measles, and would generate long-term immunity, a "coronavirus party" would indeed result in herd immunity at a cost of increased illnesses and deaths.
If covid turns out similar to common cold, herd immunity would be impossible ever without a vaccine and a "coronavirus party" would result only in unnecessary illnesses and deaths.
It's most likely somewhere in-between but we don't know where exactly, especially with its broad spectrum from asymptomatic to deadly presentations.

Also, the concept assumes that risk of serious long-term complications after contracting covid is negligible.

As of May 19, 2020, the answers are unknown.
Once they become known, the concept can be re-evaluated.


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19 May 2020, 5:37 am

magz wrote:
^ This "herd immunity" concept is based on an assumption that covid creates long-term immunity after contracting it.
Currently, there is no evidence supporting or contradicting the assumption - simply because there was too little time to explore the topic.

If covid turns out similar to, say, measles, and would generate long-term immunity, a "coronavirus party" would indeed result in herd immunity at a cost of increased illnesses and deaths.
If covid turns out similar to common cold, herd immunity would be impossible ever without a vaccine and a "coronavirus party" would result only in unnecessary illnesses and deaths.
It's most likely somewhere in-between but we don't know where exactly, especially with its broad spectrum from asymptomatic to deadly presentations.

Also, the concept assumes that risk of serious long-term complications after contracting covid is negligible.

As of May 19, 2020, the answers are unknown.
Once they become known, the concept can be re-evaluated.


I will put my humungous brain into gear and analyse what you have said,
And get back to you. 8)



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19 May 2020, 5:56 am

Sorry, half of my English comes from scientific papers.

There is this idea - sometimes called "covid party" - that if everyone contracts COVID19, we will get herd immunity and get over it.
The problem is: we don't know for how long one is immune after contracting it and recovering.
There are some illnesses like measles that grant lifelong immunity.
There are some common cold viruses that one can contract several times in one season.
We have no idea where on this axis is covid. Existing data is scarce and conflicting.
Also, we have no idea about possible long-term complications and how to prevent them.

This is why, currently, the "covid party" is a bad idea. Too little knowledge means too much risk and a high chance it could never work anyway.


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19 May 2020, 6:04 am

COVID19 is not chickenpox!

Just remember that if you want to go to a Covid Party.

One never knows how the virus will behave in your body. Fortunately, it didn’t behave too badly in mine.

Children are getting a “multisymptom inflammatory syndrome” related to COVID which is quite serious, requires hospitalization, and can prove fatal.



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19 May 2020, 6:42 am

Chicken pox is well-known and has relatively rare characteristics that makes chickenpox parties make sense.
Covid is, among all other things, still largely unknown - though a lot has been learned since March.

When it comes to proposition that everyone should contract it:
Image
Title text: If enough people uphill decide to try the rolling strategy, they can make the decision for you.
https://xkcd.com/2300/


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