LOTS of manga/anime now illegal in Sweden; soon to be in EU

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Exactly, that's another good point. Why should a sexual image of someone at or above the age on consent be illegal?

I have no need to "prove" anything. The Swedish courts already have done this for me. How about you learn some Swedish if you're so interested? I find you tiresome to reply to as you are blatantly misinformed. That includes your view of judges, as you are assuming that the way they work is the same in other countries as it is in yours; the judges have no actual power in Sweden; only "nämndemännen" do, so your argument fails there, already. Judges in Sweden only have an administrative role.

I'd also like to point out that Sweden has very uncorrupt courts that generally do their jobs as they are supposed to. As such, it worries me even more how some of the other EU countries' courts would interpret what is on the way, since many EU countries are known for several rather negative things. In actuality, if the guy in Sweden that was charged for possession of child pornography, due to some ecchi/hentai images on his hard drive, would be freed by the supreme court, it could be argued that the court would not be doing its job, due to how the law is written.

Weird, isn't it? The age of sexual consent is fifteen in Sweden, and that fifteen-year-old can legally have sex with anyone of any age from fifteen and above. Yet the law does indeed say that a drawing that is "interpreted" to be in a sexual situation, and "interpreted" to be "below eighteen", qualifies as child pornography. Such hypocricy. That part of the law applies to real photos, as well, but that's more difficult to handle as I think few would find it okay with porn that includes people below eighteen... not something I myself would ever hope to see. Otherwise, it's also illegal to look at porn, here, if you aren't eighteen, but it's okay to have REAL sex at fifteen...? And yup, the youth sure cares about it being illegal to view porn if you're below eighteen.... more like laughing about it.

You do need to prove it. You made a claim, so back it up.

PS Jag kan svenska, tack.

When it comes to viewing legal porn while you're under 18, I reckon 99.9999% of all teenagers do that anyway, and they aren't exactly gonna be arrested for it. It'd be a waste of time for the police to do teens for watching porn.

What I think they should do with this new law, though, is adjust it to the local age of consent for the country it's applied to. So they word it like "under the age of a child as defined in local age of consent laws." That'd at least make a little more sense.

Then study it some more. ;) You seem to be rather poor at it if you can't decipher what has been written.

You don't happen to be that other woman from that other forum that also claimed to understand Swedish, was harrassing me, and then angrily left when the management backed me up? If so, I have been missing you.

So now we are right back where we started. You resort to fallacious argument in leiu of actual fact and make any discussion pointless.

lol, whatever you say.

I agree with you, though - this discussion with you is pointless. Very pointless.

Well then, have a nice day. :) I think mine will be... I'm going to start it by making a really big cup of tea.

I do not think that it will criminalise pictures of pigtail wearing girls in"scottish square pattern" skirts. I have spoken to one of my two laywers and one of them told me that when a court or lawyer uses law that three things must be done.

1. You need to look at the original text of the law. You then need try to take the law literaly, if it reads "child wearing dutch clogs" then it means a child wearing dutch clogs not a scottish square pattern skirt. Nor would it mean a cat dressed in doll's clothes.

2. You need to make sure that the law is not being read in an absurd manner, for instance if a law does not allow me to allow a dog to run about chewing other dogs and children, but even if the law says "dogs" it does also apply to female dogs. The word dog is the word for a male animal while the strictly correct term for a "female dog" is "b***h". It would be absurd for a law regulating the walking of male dogs not to apply to female dogs.

3. You need to consider the intentions of the writters of the law, in one US case it was quite correctly reasoned that the libel law which applies to newspapers and books should also be applied to a feature film. While photography and films did not exist when the libel law was written it is still reasonable that the writters of the law intended it to cover any lasting form of an untrue statement which harms the reputation of a living person.

I would like to know if you have seen the text of the original law, and why do you trust the legal advice offered by the pirate party which is a fringe party ? I would not trust the legal advice offered by the pirate party anyone than I would trust the legal advice offered by a policeman who is questioning me, the random man in a bar or the barack-room lawyer sitting at the filka table.

I think that the logic closely related to the US Miller test would be likely to be used by a Swedish court, a photo or manga drawing of a twelve year-old girl with her hair in pigtails, walking her mothers Scotty dog through a park in Malmö while wearing a scottish square pattern skirt will still be legal under this test.

*Firstly the "reasonable man" (the average person, applying contemporary community standards) will not consider the picture to appeal to prurient interest (It is not sexually exciting content).

*Secondly the drawing of the little girl does not "depict/describe, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct"

*The third part of the test is "does the work when taken as a whole lack serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value". I do not think as hypothetical dog walking tartan skirt wearing pigtail girl already is cleared by the first two parts of the Miller test that we need to consider the third point. If you want to read about the Miller test then look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

This dog walking tartan skirt wearing pigtail girl is also very likely to not be judged as obscene under the stricter Hicklin test which oulaws matter which "depraves and corrupts those whose minds are open to such immoral influences and into whose hands a publication of this sort might fall". This is a legal test from a victorian court case. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Regina_v._Hicklin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hicklin_test

By the way you might find it faster to type "tartan" rather than "scottish square pattern", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartan. Also you might want to consider the question is the girl wearing a kilt

When I wrote that part, I wrote it incorrectly, as I already stated, afterwards. Due to the time limit of editing posts, I could not later edit that update that I had added in my starting post, but I posted a correcting statement where I pointed out that that is one of the *possible* outcomes, since the actual statement says that a drawing or photo that "gives the impression" of the depicted person being below eighteen is to be illegal, if the tone of the image is interpreted to be sexual. That does, de facto, mean that the depicted person almost could be any age, eighteen and above (realistically not much older than thirty, though).

lol, you actually contacted a lawyer just to post that...? You really must be determined! I find it rather funny that the only ones that are making a fight to oppose what I am saying are two people who have been exceptionally clear on that they support this, and the even more extreme censorship that may or may not be realized in Japan. By trying to discredit me, they obviously hope that the result will be that people will not take this all too seriously and forget about it, while the EU parliament and the commission still keep up with their work.

The law is not yet law so of course I have not seen it, but I have seen the text for the suggested legislation and been in direct contact with politicians that have it as their job to be updated on this; some with legal profession that far outweigh that of most others. And why do I trust Piratpartiet on this? Maybe because that party is not the only party that sees this; even very well-established parties that I, personally, would never vote on, see it, as well - not that I see why I should trust those any more? And maybe because I am aware of what currently is going on because I do not work and have had the time to research and contact many politicians that confirm each other on this? And maybe because I am aware what this type of legislation has led to in Sweden? They have interpreted it as the law more or less forces them to - you can throw all sorts of fine wordings on what the courts should or should not do, in regards such as this, in an attempt to make it seem as if what I have been saying are ramblings, but regardless of what you say, the verdict of the court of appeal (hovrätten), and the older verdict of the district court (tingsrätten), are already made examples of how it also well might turn out in the other EU countries, if this legislation does go through; especially since corruption in Swedish courts is exceptionally uncommon, which can't be said for many other EU countries.

By the way, let me return that question to you: Why do you trust your lawyer that well? Whatever in the world could make it possible for that lawyer to be delivering these truths to you? Lawyers are infallible, somehow? I think the so-called Swedish "serial killer" Thomas Quick knows better. And no, I'm not going to discuss the case of Thomas Quick, now.

And thank you, yes, tartan, that's right. I remember that term, now, for a clothing pattern found in Animal Crossing on Nintendo DS.

Next up: Dead or Alive: Dimensions for the Nintendo 3DS gets stopped in Sweden.


http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/26362?

More in Swedish:
http://lakonism.blogspot.com/2011/05/de ... pas-i.html


Yay for this glorious joke of a country.

Expect the whole EU to see similar reactions to games like that, if the EU witch Cecilia Malmström gets her desires through.

The justification given is that sexual depictions of persons under the age of 18 threatens "the dignity of all children".

Nit the 1st: All depictions are affected, regardless of medium and style.
Nit the 2nd: "Pedophile" and "sex offender" are independent terms. A "pedophile" is not always a "sex offender", and a "sex offender" is not always a "pedophile". Legislation concerns "sex offender" status. Psychology is the relevant venue for "pedophile" status.

When there is plenty of good clean manga and anime out there you people want the sick perverted stuff to not be banned? Draw your own if you're that perverted.

Default, generalizing attacks of that sort are the same that lead to games like Dead or Alive getting stopped. Are you proud of being a contributer to censorship that will lead to a domino effect? One that highly likely will lead to something that *you* like getting outlawed, with time. I hope it doesn't put you in some register, when that happens... or worse, maybe?

What is "good" and "clean" manga to you? Hamtaro? Yu-Gi-Oh? Dragonball? Dragonball has been used to accuse people of possession of child pornography, before, so I'm afraid that example wouldn't be able to be labelled as "clean".

Firstly I am not contributing, I am sitting at a computer doing very little to be honest. Secondly if I was, yes I would be proud. It's just a bunch of freaking pornographic cartoons, there's more to worry about in this world than that.