"Innocence of Muslims" doesn't exist ???

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visagrunt
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24 Sep 2012, 3:04 pm

Fnord wrote:

I am intelligent enough to believe that one man does not speak for an entire religion -- even the Pope.

However ... have you actually read the Qur'an? Muhammad the "Prophet" makes Sufi Mohammed seem like Mohandas Gandhi.

The Qur’an says:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors." -- Qur'an 2:190

"And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter." -- Qur'an 2:191

"And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and Faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression." -- Qur'an 2:193

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not." -- Qur'an 2:216

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular Prayers and practise regular Charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." -- Qur'an 9:5

And yet somehow moderate muslims are able to reconcile scripture with the modern world. Just as moderate Christians and moderate Jews are able to do so.

I do not deny that there are many evils committed in the name of religion--and that muslims are among the most obvious perpetrators. I will be full throated in my condemnation of such. But I will not see an entire religion tarred with the brush that properly applies only the to extremists.

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24 Sep 2012, 3:06 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Prof_Pretorius wrote:

This just in, the Hollywood Reporter says there is no such movie. It doesn't exist. The whole fuss is over a 14 minute "trailer" that was posted on YouTube. An actress who was in the "trailer" wanted to sue the "film maker." Her suit has been dismissed.

My question is this: Isn't there some thing called a "First Amendment" in the USA ???

Yes there is. The people who made that trailer will not be subject to any legal penalties because they violated no U.S. laws.

In the U.S. nasty, disgusting unpopular speech and expression is protected by law. Pleasant popular speech or expression needs no protection.

In Europe there are laws protecting the dignity of persons against insulting speech (so called "hate" speech). In America we say f*ck dignity. I am proud to be 'Murican.

ruveyn

Actually once the disgusting unpopular speech reaches the point of harassment it is not protected in any way, shape or form.

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Sweetleaf
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24 Sep 2012, 3:06 pm

Innocence of christians does not exist...

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Fnord
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24 Sep 2012, 3:10 pm

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Sylkat
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24 Sep 2012, 3:40 pm

Dear Fnord, So true, but now someone will probably get mad at that cartoonist!

Sylkat :roll:

Inventor
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24 Sep 2012, 7:10 pm

Fnord wrote:

Not Muslim, just the employees of The King of Saudi Arabia. Having declared that he is the only Muslim, and the rest are pretenders, worse than infidels, he is making war on them, by attacking the infidels, so he can sit back and watch his enemies slaughter each other.

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25 Sep 2012, 2:23 pm

Dear Inventor, Are you serious? 'The only real Muslim'?
If he made any statements deriding someone else's devotion to Islam, wouldn't the Imams be all over him?
Isn't part of the Imams' duty/goal/focus, to create and maintain unity?
Not that they have maintained much of that lately, of course......
I would like to know more about this guy.

Sylkat

Last edited by Sylkat on 27 Sep 2012, 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

graywyvern
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27 Sep 2012, 10:43 am

the only way i could watch it was wait 53 seconds & put this soundtrack on instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jooUhXZupfQ

but i still think using so much greenscreen is blasphemous to my sense of perspective.

PS this answers it from a Muslim viewpoint much better than i ever could:

http://www.vice.com/read/the-innocence-of-white-people

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07 Oct 2012, 1:20 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC0GqNL40h4[/youtube]

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ruveyn
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07 Oct 2012, 1:10 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Actually once the disgusting unpopular speech reaches the point of harassment it is not protected in any way, shape or form.

That is the doctrine of "fighting words" In order for the law to intervene the effect of the words must be immediate and highly probable. Which would mean that -written- words, read at leisure however disgusting and hateful would not fall under the doctrine of immediate effect. So a book like -Mein Kampf- or -The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion- would still be constitutionally protected.

Look, if you want the benefits of free expression which means minds permitted to operate freely for good or for ill, you must accept some of the risks of the consequences of free expression. Once the government gets in the business of enforcing political correctness it is game over. We shall shortly be burned, blackened toast.

ruveyn

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07 Oct 2012, 1:14 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Once the government gets in the business of enforcing political correctness it is game over. We shall shortly be burned, blackened toast.

It leads to the likes of Yusuf al-Qaradawi being openly fêted by UK politicians and politicians of major political parties in Western European countries being banned (Geert Wilders).

To be honest, it's all bad. Once you start restricting one set of obnoxious beliefs (British-born Islamist bigots), you'll end up restricting another kind (like the EDL hooligans). And then once these are suppressed, more and more opinions end up being so. Like idiots making stupid, ignorant racist comments on Twitter and people making assholish comments about British soldiers on Facebook.

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08 Oct 2012, 12:14 am

I think it depends on intent.

Is the speaker or writer expressing concern over an individual's or group's actions?
Does someone sincerely believe that others need to be warned of a group's intentions?
Or is someone basically saying that ________is bad and I don't like them, and I want everyone else mad at them.....

Sylkat

ruveyn
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08 Oct 2012, 5:13 am

Tequila wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Once the government gets in the business of enforcing political correctness it is game over. We shall shortly be burned, blackened toast.

Interesting (in a sad way). I really have no idea of what the every day scene is in England or in Europe. Here I am a citizen of the most powerful nation on earth, and I have only the foggiest notion of what is going on across the sea. And I have a computer too!

ruveyn

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