Men's Rights Group Claims Self-Defense Classes Are Sexist

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you both were trying to convince me that i (and other surviviors considering taking such a course) should be more concerned about effectiveness than a feeling of safety. i tried to tell you eight ways from sunday that i don't really care what either of you think i or any other survivor SHOULD think about the courses.

it's a little (being generous here) patronising and condescending to tell someone in a situation you've never been in and never felt before what they should be concerned about. but you both proceeded to do so anyway, because you know more about martial arts than me, and you assume that is somehow relevant to how i feel about all-female self-defense courses. it's not, because you have no insight into the state of mind of a woman considering taking such a course.

Undignified? Really?

It's called a euphemism, or how to call a jerk a jerk without using the word jerk; handy habit for avoiding ToS warnings.

In the immortal words of Steve Martin, "Well, excuuuuuuse me!"

Actually, only billiscool was making that argument, I was merely attempting to translate, and failing it seems, as I speak neither obliviousish nor selfrighteousese.



Ahh, the sure sign of an open and curious mind, the complete disregard for the opinions of others. Gotta wonder why you're even here in that case.



Okay, how does being a rape survivor make you an authority that can't be questioned on anything other than the mindset of people who've been through similar trauma? I haven't told you what you should and shouldn't be concerned about, that's your business, but I am an expert on violence, and despite never having been sexually assaulted, could probably offer you some valuable advice and insight on the subject that could be of use to you, even if I can't perfectly understand what's going on in your head, but apparently my gender and life experience have disqualified me in your eyes. I believe there's a word for that, starts with an 'S' and ends with an 'exist', can't quite seem to remember it.



Shouldn't whether or not the course is actually useful in a self defense context be relevant to how someone values it? Beyond that though, it was you who postulated that an all female class could be just as effective, and that put the ball in the court of those of us with martial arts experience, so you can't really complain about that one since you did open the door.



Really, no insight? Isn't that an awfully large assumption on your part? Even discounting the possibility that one of us had actually been sexually assaulted, both of us presumably have mothers, sisters, girlfriends, etc, any one of which could have been victimized, giving either one of us quite a bit of insight into the mindset.

I am starting to see, something I had not noticed before, how blind some people are because of their own justifications of their angers. something I am equally guilty of as I realize that of my own truths.

I think the folks arguing are arguing about two different reasons for taking the classes. The lady who was assaulted seems to be looking for more of an emotional and mental safety than physical and the guy seems to be seeing the classes only as teaching physical safety.

If the hypothetical girl who would sign up for a girls only class is rarely in situations where she would be assaulted in any way, but still has lots of fears of being assaulted and needs self confidence to be able to go out again and to feel comfortable on her own again, then a girls only class would be great for her. She's probably never again going to need to be able to take down an angry 200 lb dude, but she's going to need the confidence that she can do more physically than she thought she could, so learning to fight with other girls would do her a world of good. That's where I think the girl who has been assaulted is coming from.

If our hypothetical girl lives in the hood and has no car and has to walk the gauntlet every day, every time she goes out, and the threat is always there for somebody to jump on her, whether it's rape or robbery or just meanness in general, then I think she would need for real self defense classes that would show her how to take down an assailant like would actually be assaulting her, rather than another chick. What would kick Justin Beibers ass just wouldn't work if Ruben Studdard was coming after you. See what I'm saying? However, if she's still very gun shy, then going to the girls only classes first could help her build confidence to be able to go to the co-ed classes.

I used to have a friend that was a fireman and he used to teach free self defense classes to women who had been raped or were beat by their husbands and boyfriends. He had several guys from his department to volunteer with him to be the "crash test dummies" for it, where they are the ones that get punched and thrown around and all. They wore padding and of course, cups. The very fist class wasn't a self defense type thing though. He had them talk about their attack and really express anger. He would bring stuff for them to throw, break, kick, punch, scream at, all that. He told them to do to those objects and punching bags, etc what they wanted to do to their attacker and after everybody had a turn he told them "OK, from here on out in these classes I'm going to teach you how to do exactly that." And he did too. He was also in the Army Reserve and knew some army fighting skills as well.

I remember when Chris Elliot was on Saturday Night Live, and playing the guy dressed in padding in an all women's defense class. Well, padding, except for where any guy will tell you he needs it most . And needless to say, that's where he was got kicked throughout the whole skit.

The instructor has to show you where you are going wrong,this is usually hands on.If a woman has been traumatized by a male attack she may not be comfortable with this.It will make her nervous and impede her learning the skills.I don't see why a properly trained female instructor wouldn't be as good as a male.What if she had been a Marine and seen active duty?I don't see why she couldn't teach someone how to kick ass as good as a man.

excellent question--wonder if we'll get a response from the resident martial arts/"violence" experts.

Just like women take self defense classes to protect them selves from men, men needs self defense classes against women, but instead of physical defense, mental and legal instead.

that's helpful.

That goes both ways.The first person that ever made me feel like s**t was my bio-mom,yet you don't see me thinking that all women are bad.

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is very close to being locked ???