online "support groups" for sex deprived males
30 May 2014, 6:03 pm
While the campaign is geared to stop the explicit mysgoyny of elliot, much of the campaign is likely to distort a youths healthy libido related development, and to make him ashamed of wanting it, thinking about it, or even looking at a woman. Almost every spree shooter at some point undergone a period of trying to undergo some time of positive change, and they would sacrifice their libido to achieve that change.
unless that youth is thinking about sexually harassing and assaulting women, there's no reason why women telling their stories of being harassed and assaulted would make that youth feel ashamed.
Ive met a few young men who did not ask women out as they felt it was like raping them as women wouldnt want them talking to them. They felt so ashamed of their sexuality and desires and did not view themselves as desirable but as someone women would be revolted by. Hearing stuff about women being raped had made them fearful of doing the wrong thing and not understand that women are sexual and desirous of sex.
the trouble with the hashtag stuff is harmless men feel bad and bad about being men and their sexuality where as abusers dont care.
there seem to be a lot of what you call "harmless" men here on wrongplanet that don't take this hashtag personally and it does not seem to make them feel ashamed. i really don't understand this link; why, if you have no bad intentions, would hearing the stories of other people's bad actions make you feel ashamed of yourself? it makes no sense to me.
because men did those actions with their sex parts and they are men with sex parts so they think my gender is bad and my sexuality is bad.
i still don't understand this. i don't feel ashamed of myself when i hear of other women doing bad things to people--i understand that what some woman somewhere that i don't even know does has nothing to do with me and has no bearing on my perception of myself. i don't see how it possibly could.
well when people are nasty about single mums i feel ashamed so i can empathise with these young men feeling 'man shamed'.
no one is shaming anyone. some women are saying on twitter "x happened to me"--if you interpret that as intentional shaming of all men then i'm not sure how to reason with you. maybe if the hashtag was called #shameonallmen, then i might get where you're arguing from. but it's not, so i don't get it.
Diabolikal
Deinonychus
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 304
Location: Los Angeles CA, Somewhere in Universe
30 May 2014, 8:02 pm
While the campaign is geared to stop the explicit mysgoyny of elliot, much of the campaign is likely to distort a youths healthy libido related development, and to make him ashamed of wanting it, thinking about it, or even looking at a woman. Almost every spree shooter at some point undergone a period of trying to undergo some time of positive change, and they would sacrifice their libido to achieve that change.
unless that youth is thinking about sexually harassing and assaulting women, there's no reason why women telling their stories of being harassed and assaulted would make that youth feel ashamed.
Ive met a few young men who did not ask women out as they felt it was like raping them as women wouldnt want them talking to them. They felt so ashamed of their sexuality and desires and did not view themselves as desirable but as someone women would be revolted by. Hearing stuff about women being raped had made them fearful of doing the wrong thing and not understand that women are sexual and desirous of sex.
the trouble with the hashtag stuff is harmless men feel bad and bad about being men and their sexuality where as abusers dont care.
there seem to be a lot of what you call "harmless" men here on wrongplanet that don't take this hashtag personally and it does not seem to make them feel ashamed. i really don't understand this link; why, if you have no bad intentions, would hearing the stories of other people's bad actions make you feel ashamed of yourself? it makes no sense to me.
because men did those actions with their sex parts and they are men with sex parts so they think my gender is bad and my sexuality is bad.
i still don't understand this. i don't feel ashamed of myself when i hear of other women doing bad things to people--i understand that what some woman somewhere that i don't even know does has nothing to do with me and has no bearing on my perception of myself. i don't see how it possibly could.
well when people are nasty about single mums i feel ashamed so i can empathise with these young men feeling 'man shamed'.
no one is shaming anyone. some women are saying on twitter "x happened to me"--if you interpret that as intentional shaming of all men then i'm not sure how to reason with you. maybe if the hashtag was called #shameonallmen, then i might get where you're arguing from. but it's not, so i don't get it.
I've sort of thought about this and quite honestly sort of feared it myself, as a male (a non-sexually active one, so I'm not concerned), basically it's a context created where men are a bunch of violent harassers and such, and the #yesallwomen hashtag was originally a response to the hastag #notallmen, and it's now complicated and I can't figure it out, but point is it's a fear based on an that any action taken to ask someone if they are interested in sexual congress will instantly be rejected and feared since it will automatically be seen as leading to violence and rape, due to the idiots who did all the stuff that's talked about on #YesAll Women. Now I'm not sure I know what I'm saying, but I'm trying to explain nonetheless.
31 May 2014, 6:46 am
Depends on how much you identify as a member of a group, and feel responsible for the behaviour of the group. That tendency may be weaker among aspies.
There can be other effects, I think. Friends of mine once were carrying a sofa up narrow stairs and got stuck. I saw the problem, stepped in and fixed it, took a few seconds. I thought I was being efficient and helpful. One of them thought instead that this was a very male attitude, assuming that two women couldn't do the job. I think I would have done exactly the same for two men, I grew up with competent women and I am not aware of having a problem with that, but because self-deception is a common human trait I can't be quite sure (if I imagined I was the one guy free from self-deception, I'd really be in trouble). Important in this context is that I don't think my friend was overly sensitive. She wouldn't have thought I was treating women as incompetent if she hadn't encountered that attitude from other men. If ratbags bias other people's experiences, I have to think more about ambiguous situations, and avoid being mistaken for a ratbag, not just for the sake of my reputation, but to reduce other people's ratbag experiences. But as far as talking about this goes, my problem then lies with the ratbags, not with the people who point out ratbaggery.
Lots of actual uses of government funds are far less deserving, but there is the question whether you have enough lobbying power to tap into that source. Try crowdfunding instead. Or found a religion. It worked for L. Ron Hubbard. You could offer courses at different levels of appreciation of you. People have to pay more to learn the finer details of your greatness.
31 May 2014, 8:42 am
Lots of actual uses of government funds are far less deserving, but there is the question whether you have enough lobbying power to tap into that source. Try crowdfunding instead. Or found a religion. It worked for L. Ron Hubbard. You could offer courses at different levels of appreciation of you. People have to pay more to learn the finer details of your greatness.
That's a great idea! When they get to the final level, they can tell me the meaning of my life.
AspergianMutantt
Veteran
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,782
Location: North Idaho. USA
31 May 2014, 11:27 am
I have walked into places like bars and just looked around the room, there have been many times when I just glanced at a woman and she would give me this evil or angry look as if saying don't even think about talking to me, and indeed a few has even said it with a "get lost" without me saying a word. yet I watch as other men enter the room that would be considered more alpha and the women were almost begging for his attentions.
And more then once I have worked at places where women told bosses that I was bothering them (when I hardly noticed them), ask the boss who so I know who to avoid and they say they cant tell me that... but once by chance I heard one girl talking to a co-worker-girl complaining that I just looked plain creepy and she simply didn't want to work next to me, not that I done anything wrong.
I had gotten a lot of that in my life, mostly due to bad body language and that of my having difficulty in reading their own. but early in life I simply didn't know or understand, all I knew was rejection. I was even bullied from 1st grade to last, and even once humiliated by a girl that just wanted to make public fun of me.
Even though in many ways it was my own fault for not understanding and doing something about it (if at all possible, Aspergers) its also the fault of others as well because of how they treat other people with their own biases and prejudices. then expect that other person to go get counseling or something when they break down, not caring nor accepting what part they may have played in it them selves.
I can see it now,
[man] Hello nice lady (I am lonely)
[woman] go get counseling for it (creep).
[councilor] its all in your head, be happy with who you are, (its not like you were born to reproduce.)
Many times I been looked at and treated like that Mr badman that was capable of all those evil things other men has done to them, when I am not that way, I am totally for equal rights and I am a pacifist. if anything even I have been raped once (by another male).. so it does hurt when some man somewhere goes off on the world then women look at me wondering if I am that way or not. its like a negative before a neutral or positive, I end up having to try and prove my self not those things when people don't want to give you that opportunity. I have found about the only way I can get a date is when I meet them first over the Internet so they may get to know me, otherwise I don't get a chance in hell.
People DO treat you according to their first impressions and body languages you give off..
And their fearful of for them selves if you do not fit their criteria.
I gave up, retreated from the world. I don't need the crap.
I am tiered of trying to prove my self of things I never done. being told to improve my self like I am never good enough and there are no rewards for my efforts. all there is is my addressing other peoples insecurities. or like that of wanting me to become like some friggen saint.
_________________
Master Thread Killer
31 May 2014, 12:02 pm
And more then once I have worked at places where women told bosses that I was bothering them (when I hardly noticed them), ask the boss who so I know who to avoid and they say they cant tell me that... but once by chance I heard one girl talking to a co-worker-girl complaining that I just looked plain creepy and she simply didn't want to work next to me, not that I done anything wrong.
I had gotten a lot of that in my life, mostly due to bad body language and that of my having difficulty in reading their own. but early in life I simply didn't know or understand, all I knew was rejection. I was even bullied from 1st grade to last, and even once humiliated by a girl that just wanted to make public fun of me.
Even though in many ways it was my own fault for not understanding and doing something about it (if at all possible, Aspergers) its also the fault of others as well because of how they treat other people with their own biases and prejudices. then expect that other person to go get counseling or something when they break down, not caring nor accepting what part they may have played in it them selves.
I can see it now,
[man] Hello nice lady (I am lonely)
[woman] go get counseling for it (creep).
[councilor] its all in your head, be happy with who you are, (its not like you were born to reproduce.)
Many times I been looked at and treated like that Mr badman that was capable of all those evil things other men has done to them, when I am not that way, I am totally for equal rights and I am a pacifist. if anything even I have been raped once (by another male).. so it does hurt when some man somewhere goes off on the world then women look at me wondering if I am that way or not. its like a negative before a neutral or positive, I end up having to try and prove my self not those things when people don't want to give you that opportunity. I have found about the only way I can get a date is when I meet them first over the Internet so they may get to know me, otherwise I don't get a chance in hell.
People DO treat you according to their first impressions and body languages you give off..
And their fearful of for them selves if you do not fit their criteria.
I gave up, retreated from the world. I don't need the crap.
I am tiered of trying to prove my self of things I never done. being told to improve my self like I am never good enough and there are no rewards for my efforts. all there is is my addressing other peoples insecurities. or like that of wanting me to become like some friggen saint.
this is what i don't understand about this scenario: why do guys get angry at women who are suspicious of them because they've been raped/assaulted/abused in the past INSTEAD OF GETTING ANGRY AT THE GUYS WHO RAPED/ASSAULTED/ABUSED THE WOMEN AND MADE IT SO HARD FOR THEM TO TRUST MEN???? this is the part that makes no sense to me. I DIDN'T CAUSE MYSELF TO GET RAPED AND SUBSEQUENTLY STRUGGLE WITH TRUSTING MEN, SO DON"T BLAME ME FOR IT, BLAME THE F***ING RAPISTS AND ABUSERS!! !! !! if i want to tell my story and share my experiences with other women who have experienced such things, it is NOT TO SHAME INNOCENT MEN!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! JESUS H CHRIST.
31 May 2014, 12:12 pm
I don't think he was implying that at all. Women have to be very careful, yes, but he wasn't implying that he was angry at women as a whole, and you've added in that these women have all been raped in the past. He was only explaining his story. That should be welcomed here and sympathy and support offered. He hasn't expressed any hatred or misogyny.
_________________
I've left WP.
31 May 2014, 12:17 pm
yeah, except everyone on this site the last week has been telling me what a horrible person i am because i share my story about being raped and abused as a child and that means that i hate all men and i'm a bully and i'm a b***h because i don't trust strange men. somehow this is all my fault for saying "sorry i don't trust men who approach me on teh street but i have reasons from my past for doing so, and so do lots of other women"--apparently this makes me a raging b***h.
31 May 2014, 12:18 pm
this is what i don't understand about this scenario: why do guys get angry at women who are suspicious of them because they've been raped/assaulted/abused in the past INSTEAD OF GETTING ANGRY AT THE GUYS WHO RAPED/ASSAULTED/ABUSED THE WOMEN AND MADE IT SO HARD FOR THEM TO TRUST MEN???? this is the part that makes no sense to me. I DIDN'T CAUSE MYSELF TO GET RAPED AND SUBSEQUENTLY STRUGGLE WITH TRUSTING MEN, SO DON"T BLAME ME FOR IT, BLAME THE F***ING RAPISTS AND ABUSERS!! !! !! if i want to tell my story and share my experiences with other women who have experienced such things, it is NOT TO SHAME INNOCENT MEN!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! JESUS H CHRIST.
Sounds like AM is bothered by the actions of the rapist, to me.
31 May 2014, 12:20 pm
this is what i don't understand about this scenario: why do guys get angry at women who are suspicious of them because they've been raped/assaulted/abused in the past INSTEAD OF GETTING ANGRY AT THE GUYS WHO RAPED/ASSAULTED/ABUSED THE WOMEN AND MADE IT SO HARD FOR THEM TO TRUST MEN???? this is the part that makes no sense to me. I DIDN'T CAUSE MYSELF TO GET RAPED AND SUBSEQUENTLY STRUGGLE WITH TRUSTING MEN, SO DON"T BLAME ME FOR IT, BLAME THE F***ING RAPISTS AND ABUSERS!! !! !! if i want to tell my story and share my experiences with other women who have experienced such things, it is NOT TO SHAME INNOCENT MEN!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! JESUS H CHRIST.
Sounds like AM is bothered by the actions of the rapist, to me.
well lots of the other guys (and gals) who've been giving me a hard time about this all week have not been bothered by the actions of the rapist but have been really bothered by me talking about it. and i'm tired of it.
31 May 2014, 12:25 pm
^ I think you tend to take things very personally, very quickly. For instance, AM was talking about his story and the mention of it has brought up your past for you. That is about your past though, not AM. I understand that you are very upset and traumatised from your past, but it is not AM's fault.
_________________
I've left WP.
31 May 2014, 12:26 pm
you're right, i take being called a bully for saying i have been raped really seriously, really fast. wouldn't you? (it happened in another thread).
AspergianMutantt
Veteran
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,782
Location: North Idaho. USA
31 May 2014, 12:31 pm
How interesting.............
When I got raped and tried to get a woman to listen to me with a sympathetic ear, the only looks I got was a "well your a male so you likely deserved it", or (like from the males) that your a weak assed male for even complaining and I should have taken it with a grain of salt and move on. even my own family told me not to talk about it like I should be so ashamed.
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Master Thread Killer
31 May 2014, 12:39 pm
you're right, i take being called a bully for saying i have been raped really seriously, really fast. wouldn't you? (it happened in another thread).
In bold.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but you haven't considered AM's story. HE has been raped also, and he says he is misjudged by other women. Rather than attacking him and making this about you, why don't you listen and offer him support? Since you may have similar experiences and put downs from other people.
_________________
I've left WP.
04 Jun 2014, 11:47 am
To be fair - I think what could be going on generally is a mix of how geek culture became mainstream culture over the last 20 years, and how this culture is now being "tone policed" by the powerful set.
I remember the kind of bullying I suffered for being Aspie in the 1980s, but there was a key difference.
People in my age range built the tech culture we all interact in. Tim Berners-Lee, Steve Furber, Patrick Bossert etc are my cohort. We had computing to escape into as it was ignored by the powerful bullies - both male and female. Trey Parker, Matt Stone, Gary Gygax,
In American culture, this would be the Jocks/Cheerleaders set. We hid from them in geeky pursuits. In a counterculture we built, where the value of a person was based on accomplishment plus a "brothers/sisters in arms" bond around the bullying...
American teen culture is toxic enough - but with nowhere to hide...
No excuse.. but it does seem to be another angle...
