What are the causes of recent swarm of immigrants to Europe?

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blauSamstag
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09 Sep 2015, 10:40 am

Magneto wrote:

Why don't the (super)majority keep them in check, then?

Also, why do countries with majority muslim populations always have such problems?

If you can judge a tree by it's fruit...

Indonesia is the most populous muslim nation and does not seem to have these issues?

jackinblack
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09 Sep 2015, 11:57 am

blauSamstag wrote:

Magneto wrote:

Why don't the (super)majority keep them in check, then?

Also, why do countries with majority Muslim populations always have such problems?

If you can judge a tree by it's fruit...

Indonesia is the most populous Muslim nation and does not seem to have these issues?

Because Islam is not the problem, or any other religion. It is the chaos, insecurity and danger that pushes people to seek hope in religion. This happened many times in history, for example when communist government oppressed Poles their nation became 98% Christian as a result, because people found hope in catholic church which opposed the government. When it comes to Middle Eastern case, they found their strength in Islam.

Every holy book's interpretation will depend on the current affairs. It's not religion that produces much evil, but evil around that makes people turn to religion. Killing may be seen inhumane but not when it is the god's will.

Humanaut
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09 Sep 2015, 6:51 pm

jackinblack wrote:

It is the chaos, insecurity and danger that pushes people to seek hope in religion.

Poverty is one of the most common preconditions for chaos, insecurity and danger, and societies organized in a way that hampers economic activity have a tendency to end up impoverished. Both religions and ideologies can create poverty and suffering (see Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations). Two noteable contemporary examples: Islam and marxism.

cyberdad
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10 Sep 2015, 1:23 am

Humanaut wrote:

jackinblack wrote:

It is the chaos, insecurity and danger that pushes people to seek hope in religion.

Funny then how Nazism spread like wildfire in Germany which in the 1920s was one of the wealthiest, culturally sophisticated, most technology advanced countries in the world.

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10 Sep 2015, 1:33 am

It's a combination of the fallout of Arab Spring (surprise surprise, anarchy doesn't work) and the Iraq war.

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Humanaut
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10 Sep 2015, 1:39 am

What caused the Arab Spring and the Iraq War?

Magneto
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10 Sep 2015, 5:54 am

Ganondox wrote:

It's a combination of the fallout of Arab Spring (surprise surprise, anarchy doesn't work) and the Iraq war.

You can hardly call tyrannical regimes "anarchist"...

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10 Sep 2015, 7:26 am

cyberdad wrote:

Humanaut wrote:

jackinblack wrote:

It is the chaos, insecurity and danger that pushes people to seek hope in religion.

Funny then how Nazism spread like wildfire in Germany which in the 1920s was one of the wealthiest, culturally sophisticated, most technology advanced countries in the world.

You need to read history. Nazism rose from a bankrupt Germany during the great depression following a brutal WWI...

Raptor
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10 Sep 2015, 11:52 am

pcuser wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Humanaut wrote:

jackinblack wrote:

It is the chaos, insecurity and danger that pushes people to seek hope in religion.

Funny then how Nazism spread like wildfire in Germany which in the 1920s was one of the wealthiest, culturally sophisticated, most technology advanced countries in the world.

You need to read history. Nazism rose from a bankrupt Germany during the great depression following a brutal WWI...

Hyperinflation in the Weimar Republic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic

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Inventor
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11 Sep 2015, 8:26 pm

Free money in Germany and Sweden.

Islam has been trying to invade Europe for a thousand years.

A mentally weak, socially destroyed, Europe has left the door open to being overrun.

Islam is as hard core a desert religion as it ever was. Any land they settle becomes part of Islam.

Islamic lands have there own law, and enforce religion.

Convert, pay the tax, or die.

Nothing has changed.

glebel
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12 Sep 2015, 10:35 am

Inventor wrote:

With this current crop of Islamists, I don't think anything short of conversion would satisfy them.

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cyberdad
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12 Sep 2015, 7:02 pm

pcuser wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Humanaut wrote:

jackinblack wrote:

It is the chaos, insecurity and danger that pushes people to seek hope in religion.

Funny then how Nazism spread like wildfire in Germany which in the 1920s was one of the wealthiest, culturally sophisticated, most technology advanced countries in the world.

You need to read history. Nazism rose from a bankrupt Germany during the great depression following a brutal WWI...

Yes and if you check the history books Germany was no worse off in terms of poverty than other western countries during the aforementioned great depression. Germany was highly cultured and relatively sophisticated in terms education and development compared to the rest of the world in the 1920s. A sense of injustice following reparations in WW1 stoked the fires of nationalism and rendered the Germans vulnerable to in-group thinking (us and them). The path the country chose to follow in supporting Nazism had grass roots support (not top down). This had little to do with poverty when you consider that the rest of Europe as equally influenced by the depression. In the modern era Germany and Japan suffer national amnesia over their collective actions in embracing fascism.

If this could happen to countries now classed as "highly developed" then we might be exaggerating the role of medieval philosophy and poverty in determining unstable government.

The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Sep 2015, 6:46 am

Magneto wrote:

Why don't the (super)majority keep them in check, then?

Also, why do countries with majority muslim populations always have such problems?

If you can judge a tree by it's fruit...

As if Europe never produced Nazism and concentration camps in recent history.

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14 Sep 2015, 9:34 am

Magneto wrote:

...Also, why do countries with majority muslim populations always have such problems?...

Majority Muslim countries ALWAYS have such problems?

Sorry this sort of comment helps nobody. I am probably crazy to think anyone would read my previous rather long post however I don't see how Islam (as opposed to any other Western religion) needs to take the blame for either terrorism or chronic warfare.

To put things in perspective, the largest Muslim majority country is Indonesia (I guess Malaysia is also fairly large). Also something most people don't know is that the Muslim population of India (although not majority Muslim) is larger than its majority Muslim neighbor Pakistan. I don't see any of those countries as representing large numbers of either terrorists or refugees. To be perfectly frank, Christians have been at least as responsible for the cock-up as Muslims but I wouldn't blame this on their religion.

Why must we demonize either Jews or Muslims?

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glebel
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14 Sep 2015, 10:00 am

MaxE wrote:

Magneto wrote:

...Also, why do countries with majority muslim populations always have such problems?...

I suppose that it is convenient and much simpler to demonize people than it is to look for the root causes of any given conflict. And once again, religion is used as a rallying point for stirring up the masses. This is apparently a case of using differences between two populations ( Sunni and Shiite ) to fill a power vacuum left by the fall of Hussein and the weakening of the Assad regime.

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Magneto
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14 Sep 2015, 11:56 am

Okay, I'm sorry. I should have used the word almost before always.

India may have more Muslims than Pakistan, but that's like saying, ooh, Britain has more Catholics than Vatican City.

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