transgender student OKed for locker room access

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I used the term "it" because I was referring to biological entities of any species, not specifically humans.

I don't claim to be able to "see people's chromosomes," I was simply making a factual statement regarding the biological determination of gender at the chromosome level. As for intersex conditions, they are precisely what you labelled them, they are "intersex" neither fully male nor fully female and therefore do not in any way alter the fundamental biological chromosomal distinction between males and females, of any species.

Then there are a few more relevant facts; e.g.,

• Not all species have sexes.

• Not all species which do have sexes use the XY sex-determination system. There are others.

I don't know about the girl, but the boy will be told to man up, made fun of, and bullied even more than he probably was already, and he can be sure he'll never have any privacy again anywhere within the other boys' reach, as some will routinely go out of their way not to let him. All in all, it's a very unwise move to reveal his discomfort.

Apologies, you didn't make that very clear. Given that you responded to someone who was talking about people with hormone conditions, and you have previously referred to cisgendered people as "he/him/she/her", I assumed you referring to transgendered people specifically as "it".

You make a determination of sex at the chromosomal level, that is true, but you can't use that in a socially applicable context. What I meant by my comment was that you cant tell someone's chromosomes by looking at them, which means using chromosomal markers as a way to determine someone's "true" gender is impossible. There is no viable way in our day to day lives that we can use chromosomal markers as a basis for gender because we simply can't tell by looking. Not only that, someone's genetic make up is absolutely none of your business unless you are their healthcare professional - there's a reason genetic make-up is protected by law.

Each chromosomal set has different sexual attributes, it's true. But there are so many ways in which these attributes can be mixed up. XY folk can grow breasts (gynecomastia), XX folk can grow beards (can be cause by PCOS), intersex people may have indeterminable genitals, or determinable genitals of one chromosomal setm but sex charactaristics of another chromosomal set. And on top of that, it's very easy to disguise sex charactaristics - breast binding, use of prosthetics, make-up, shaving...

You have to accept someone's gender the way they define it because there is no way you can tell otherwise.

Again irrelevant. Did I state that all species use the XY/XX system? Nope. Did I refer to prokaryotic lifeforms or other alternatives? Nope. However if you want it clarifying.... within species which do use the XY/XX chromosomal system to determine biological gender then, I repeat....

XX = Female
XY = Male

I made a post simply to point out that, despite what others have written on this thread, there is a biological determination of gender, and that's all I did. I did not make any allusions or statements either against or in support of the issue of a transgender person using any specific locker room. It makes no difference to me one way or the other as I don't use locker rooms and I'm not a US citizen.

As for my "having" to accept anything, that's entirely up to me whether I do or do not.

So they are being sued now. I wonder if she had to sign anything when she got a membership and did it say on the paper that they have a right to terminate her gym membership at any time. I see this all the time when I have to sign for something rather it's membership or signing on a website and I assume this is for liability so I won't sue them if they terminate my account or membership. But people can still try.

For a while I felt uncomfortable dressing in front of other girls when I went through puberty and guess what I did, I changed in the stall.

Oh look, another person who obviously doens't understand what transgender means but feels fine judging all transgender women who would like the ability to use women's washrooms and change-rooms as some kind of perverts trying to predate on women. Your ignorance is just as wrong as people who are ignorant of autism who treat you badly because they don't understand autism and don't want to. Can't you see that??

^^^ THIS ^^^

We on the spectrum complain and rail against NT people who assume they know what it's like, and who claim to know what we really are (lazy, immoral, selfish grifters). And Wrong Planet is where we can congregate and feel safe. That's why it hurts so much when members of our community do the same to people here based on some other intrinsic, neurological attribute!

This is seriously amazing. I had no idea that this was even possible. I'm not ever going to see gender the same way again.

If they have XY chromosomes, they should be made to go in the mens stalls, amirite? I don't care how they look - if it's got a Y chromosome, it's a man, even if it has given birth. Women shouldn't have to put up with people with Y chromosomes in their bathrooms.

[conspicuous lack of suggestion that *everyone* who lacks a Y chromosome should be made to use the women's bathrooms]

It's really not a simple binary--and the sooner we recognise and accept that as a species, the happier and more well-adjusted we will ALL be.

Please stop using the pronoun "it" when talking about human beings. It's extremely reductive and insulting, and literally dehumanising.

The issue is not with the mind, nor what's in the transgenders head. The issue with this boy's case is with his biological form, not the fact that he's transgender. Everyone knows it, including the transgender community. There is a reason for keeping the biological males and females separated in the locker/rest room. I've been dealing with it all my life. My biological male form isn't allowed in the biological females locker/rest rooms, nor should it be allowed.

If they were trying to keep this boy from using the girl's locker room solely based on his transgender status this would be a case of discrimination, but it's not since the body is the problem, not the mind.

I don't want transgenders to go away. So please stop throwing around bigot, transphobia, etc. when those of us who see this issue differently from the way you see it. I have yet to call any of you names in this thread, I think I deserve the same treatment.

First, the shape of his genitalia is none of anyone's business. Just like for non-trans people. Let me ask you this: If bathroom laws were put into place that prohibit trans people, would you be willing to show your genitals to an "inspector" each time you entered?

Second, trans people are exceedingly private about their genitals. Partly because they can be ashamed that they are the wrong shape, but also because of the way they've been treated by everyone. Your sick fantasy of any trans person male or female *flaunting* their penis if they have one is so far off base it's like an ink blot test into YOUR psyche.

Finally, these guys use regular gyms and use the same facilities as anyone else from what I've heard, especially when on the road for competitions.