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Jacoby
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11 Nov 2016, 11:07 pm

Earthbound wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Hillary has had the Saudis and Qatar backing her for years. They're a billion times worse than Russia. A friendly relationship between the US and Russia could be a wonderful thing, though war mongering Hollywood would have to find a new enemy.


:roll: Right.

I think the only friendly relationship Russia wants with USA (and most countries for that matter)- for them to look the other way while they try to invade other countries illegally. The year is 2016- countries should NOT be trying to landgrab, period.


Very ironic coming from an American, invading other countries illegally is so 2003!

I fully support our restoration of relations with Russia, I think they can be a valuable ally if we approach them with mutual respect and if we stop trying to meddle in their sphere of the world. Last time Russia meddled in our hemisphere we almost started a nuclear war with Cuba(and of course we the America people didn't know about us having nukes pointed at them in Turkey) so imagine how they feel when we essentially do the same thing. The US has been expansionist, it has moved right up to Russia's borders and threaten to overthrow them too.



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12 Nov 2016, 12:52 am

staremaster wrote:
Russia says it was in touch with Trump campaign


Samantha Bee, on her show, Full Frontal, had interviewed a couple of Russian trolls on the payroll of Russian intelligence, who admit to posing as Americans in their various social media identities that literally number in the hundreds. They admit to interfering with the American election, saying that they were out to influence "simple minded people."


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12 Nov 2016, 1:24 am

JohnPowell wrote:
Hillary has had the Saudis and Qatar backing her for years. They're a billion times worse than Russia. A friendly relationship between the US and Russia could be a wonderful thing, though war mongering Hollywood would have to find a new enemy.


Neither Saudi Arabia or Qatar have aspirations to turn America into a satellite state/b***h by a national leader who is a sinister spymaster with dreams of revenge for perceived wrongs against his country.


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12 Nov 2016, 1:42 am

I'm waiting to see how fast the donald obliterates ISIS which are causing putin's buddy assad all kinds of problems, when will he cut the funding to the 'moderate' rebels? He harps on about his idol Reagan constantly but didn't RR pretty much ensure (I think Carter started it if I remember right but Reagan certainly took a shine to the cause) the soviets got ensnared in afghanistan for years (contributed greatly to their downfall) of fruitless toil against those mujahideen 'freedom fighters' he was so fond of financing?



Jacoby
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12 Nov 2016, 9:03 am

Reagan had a lot of bad people around him, remember Mr CIA was his VP so I think they did a lot of things that he genuinely wasn't fully aware of but something forgotten is that Reagan also pulled our troops out of the middle east after being bombed in Lebanon. Here's what he had to say about that...

Quote:
Perhaps we didn't appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and the complexity of the problems that made the Middle East such a jungle. Perhaps the idea of a suicide car bomber committing mass murder to gain instant entry to Paradise was so foreign to our own values and consciousness that it did not create in us the concern for the marines' safety that it should have.

In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believe the last thing that we should do was turn tail and leave. Yet the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there. If there would be some rethinking of policy before our men die, we would be a lot better off. If that policy had changed towards more of a neutral position and neutrality, those 241 marines would be alive today.


Reagan was not a neocon and was actually pretty restrained in his use of overt military force

I am not sure what Trump's plan with Syria is but I am sure will not know until it happens so at least until he takes office. Apparently the Syrian government and Russia are now feeling a lot less urgency to capture all of Aleppo before the new administration so hopefully that can allow some humanitarian relief. I think the first thing Trump will try to do is to work out a grand political solution which Russia and Assad are open too as long as no preconditions are set upon it, we need to coordinate our military intelligence in Syria with the Russians as we can hardly blame the Russians for hitting a civilian target if we had the intelligence identifying it as such and refused to share it.

The issue at this point is more Turkey and the Gulf states who have their own geopolitical priorities in the region, the Turks will not allow the Kurds to have a state and Gulf is scare ****less of a unified Shia Crescent. I think the Turks can be reasoned with but the Gulf Arabs I think are unreachable and more our enemies than Shia Iran.



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12 Nov 2016, 10:55 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Hillary has had the Saudis and Qatar backing her for years. They're a billion times worse than Russia. A friendly relationship between the US and Russia could be a wonderful thing, though war mongering Hollywood would have to find a new enemy.


Neither Saudi Arabia or Qatar have aspirations to turn America into a satellite state/b***h by a national leader who is a sinister spymaster with dreams of revenge for perceived wrongs against his country.


No, they just helped fund the 9/11 hijackers and 9/11. You're calling Russia the spymaster? Haha.


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12 Nov 2016, 3:36 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Hillary has had the Saudis and Qatar backing her for years. They're a billion times worse than Russia. A friendly relationship between the US and Russia could be a wonderful thing, though war mongering Hollywood would have to find a new enemy.


Neither Saudi Arabia or Qatar have aspirations to turn America into a satellite state/b***h by a national leader who is a sinister spymaster with dreams of revenge for perceived wrongs against his country.


No, they just helped fund the 9/11 hijackers and 9/11. You're calling Russia the spymaster? Haha.


I called Putin the spymaster, which was pretty much his job description when he was with the KGB.
And if the Saudis and the Gulf States were to be proven to have been behind 9/11, then that should make their leadership fair game for assassination and ruination. But till then, we have to hold our noses and deal with the odious people who control the oil industries overseas. They could be cut out of the loop almost entirely if a certain American political persuasion (cough, conservatism, cough) were not so dead set against developing alternate sources of power.


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13 Nov 2016, 11:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Hillary has had the Saudis and Qatar backing her for years. They're a billion times worse than Russia. A friendly relationship between the US and Russia could be a wonderful thing, though war mongering Hollywood would have to find a new enemy.


Neither Saudi Arabia or Qatar have aspirations to turn America into a satellite state/b***h by a national leader who is a sinister spymaster with dreams of revenge for perceived wrongs against his country.


No, they just helped fund the 9/11 hijackers and 9/11. You're calling Russia the spymaster? Haha.


I called Putin the spymaster, which was pretty much his job description when he was with the KGB.
And if the Saudis and the Gulf States were to be proven to have been behind 9/11, then that should make their leadership fair game for assassination and ruination. But till then, we have to hold our noses and deal with the odious people who control the oil industries overseas. They could be cut out of the loop almost entirely if a certain American political persuasion (cough, conservatism, cough) were not so dead set against developing alternate sources of power.


So the US don't have their "spymasters" across the world via the CIA etc? Anything you accuse Russia of is trumped by the US 10 times over at least. The evidence is already there that they helped fund the hijackers, and it wasn't just the Saudis.


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13 Nov 2016, 7:10 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Hillary has had the Saudis and Qatar backing her for years. They're a billion times worse than Russia. A friendly relationship between the US and Russia could be a wonderful thing, though war mongering Hollywood would have to find a new enemy.


Neither Saudi Arabia or Qatar have aspirations to turn America into a satellite state/b***h by a national leader who is a sinister spymaster with dreams of revenge for perceived wrongs against his country.


No, they just helped fund the 9/11 hijackers and 9/11. You're calling Russia the spymaster? Haha.


I called Putin the spymaster, which was pretty much his job description when he was with the KGB.
And if the Saudis and the Gulf States were to be proven to have been behind 9/11, then that should make their leadership fair game for assassination and ruination. But till then, we have to hold our noses and deal with the odious people who control the oil industries overseas. They could be cut out of the loop almost entirely if a certain American political persuasion (cough, conservatism, cough) were not so dead set against developing alternate sources of power.


So the US don't have their "spymasters" across the world via the CIA etc? Anything you accuse Russia of is trumped by the US 10 times over at least. The evidence is already there that they helped fund the hijackers, and it wasn't just the Saudis.


Of course America has spymasters - George W. Bush was one when he headed up the CIA. My problem with Putin is is that I don't want some homophobic, totalitarian, foreign strongman interfering with my country's election process. That was in fact a very real fear of the founding fathers. The reason why the President has to be born in America arose out of their fear that the British would engineer a process in which a wealthy Englishman could gain American citizenship, then gain the Presidency by means of outspending all other candidates, thereby turning America into a British colony in all but name, once again.
As for Saudi involvement: I stand by my previous statement about that, including how conservatives are playing the role of useful idiots to OPEC by opposing development of alternative energy sources.


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14 Nov 2016, 8:57 am

Jacoby wrote:
Earthbound wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Hillary has had the Saudis and Qatar backing her for years. They're a billion times worse than Russia. A friendly relationship between the US and Russia could be a wonderful thing, though war mongering Hollywood would have to find a new enemy.


:roll: Right.

I think the only friendly relationship Russia wants with USA (and most countries for that matter)- for them to look the other way while they try to invade other countries illegally. The year is 2016- countries should NOT be trying to landgrab, period.


Very ironic coming from an American, invading other countries illegally is so 2003!

I fully support our restoration of relations with Russia, I think they can be a valuable ally if we approach them with mutual respect and if we stop trying to meddle in their sphere of the world. Last time Russia meddled in our hemisphere we almost started a nuclear war with Cuba(and of course we the America people didn't know about us having nukes pointed at them in Turkey) so imagine how they feel when we essentially do the same thing. The US has been expansionist, it has moved right up to Russia's borders and threaten to overthrow them too.


Making things up?

When has the US threatened to overthrow Russia?

Please provide citations to reliable literature on the subject. Alt-right paranoia doesn't count.

As far as us having nukes in Turkey pointed at Russia, when was this? We've stored nukes in Turkey for use on airplanes. Claiming that the nukes are "pointed at Russia" might apply if they were nuclear missiles, but they aren't.

Yeah, we shouldn't be meddling as much, but our long-term security does require us to be involved in working with other countries to bolster a common defense.

As far as invading other countries "is so 2003", don't forget Russia's taking of Crimea in 2014.



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14 Nov 2016, 9:12 am

Crimea has the right to self determination, they are Russian and it is their right to join the Russian Federation. Ukraine's government came to power via a violent illegal coup and the east/west divide in Ukraine is so extreme that the east and Crimea were both 90% in favor of Yanukovych, he was their president. The Maidan government was radically anti-Russian and among the first things was to move against Russian language speakers which is half the country, once the coup happened they had no obligation of sticking around.



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14 Nov 2016, 10:12 am

In an honest referendum, there would be serious doubt whether or not Crimea would vote to join Russia. The referendum they had was biased very heavily toward Russia. The reports are that they heavily suppressed the vote by citizens of Crimea and allowed anyone with a Russian passport, including military, to vote.

If Clinton had been able to manipulate the election like the Russians did in Crimea, she would have won all of the electoral college votes.



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14 Nov 2016, 1:22 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Crimea has the right to self determination, they are Russian and it is their right to join the Russian Federation. Ukraine's government came to power via a violent illegal coup and the east/west divide in Ukraine is so extreme that the east and Crimea were both 90% in favor of Yanukovych, he was their president. The Maidan government was radically anti-Russian and among the first things was to move against Russian language speakers which is half the country, once the coup happened they had no obligation of sticking around.


So, as far as self-determination goes, would you be so supportive if the Latino population of the American southwest became so large a majority that they decided to go back to Mexico?


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14 Nov 2016, 3:02 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Crimea has the right to self determination, they are Russian and it is their right to join the Russian Federation. Ukraine's government came to power via a violent illegal coup and the east/west divide in Ukraine is so extreme that the east and Crimea were both 90% in favor of Yanukovych, he was their president. The Maidan government was radically anti-Russian and among the first things was to move against Russian language speakers which is half the country, once the coup happened they had no obligation of sticking around.


So, as far as self-determination goes, would you be so supportive if the Latino population of the American southwest became so large a majority that they decided to go back to Mexico?


The door is open for anyone who wants to leave for Mexico; they can leave at any time. Secession is not available, for obvious reasons.

Quite humorous to contemplate though. :D



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14 Nov 2016, 3:18 pm

ZenDen wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Crimea has the right to self determination, they are Russian and it is their right to join the Russian Federation. Ukraine's government came to power via a violent illegal coup and the east/west divide in Ukraine is so extreme that the east and Crimea were both 90% in favor of Yanukovych, he was their president. The Maidan government was radically anti-Russian and among the first things was to move against Russian language speakers which is half the country, once the coup happened they had no obligation of sticking around.


So, as far as self-determination goes, would you be so supportive if the Latino population of the American southwest became so large a majority that they decided to go back to Mexico?


The door is open for anyone who wants to leave for Mexico; they can leave at any time. Secession is not available, for obvious reasons.

Quite humorous to contemplate though. :D


I'm asking about the reaction of conservatives and the self-determination people if Latinos would leave for Mexico with the whole of the Southwest with them, would they be so supportive?.


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14 Nov 2016, 4:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Crimea has the right to self determination, they are Russian and it is their right to join the Russian Federation. Ukraine's government came to power via a violent illegal coup and the east/west divide in Ukraine is so extreme that the east and Crimea were both 90% in favor of Yanukovych, he was their president. The Maidan government was radically anti-Russian and among the first things was to move against Russian language speakers which is half the country, once the coup happened they had no obligation of sticking around.


So, as far as self-determination goes, would you be so supportive if the Latino population of the American southwest became so large a majority that they decided to go back to Mexico?

Perhaps a reason it is important to stop the tide of illegal immigrants from Mexico, it's not an uncommon belief that Mexico owns the American Southwest at all. I feel birthright citizenship needs to be looked at, just being born on this soil should not be enough if you're parents are not here legally. To be a natural born citizen I think you should have a parent who is an American citizen or at least permanent resident.

Generally speaking tho, yes I support the right of self-determination so if the scenario you describe came to pass then while I may oppose that secession there wouldn't be much that you could do to stop it. The good thing is tho, I don't think too many Mexican Americans or even illegals want this to be Mexico or else they wouldn't of left in the first place.

As for the vote in Crimea, I'd say it was fair enough to say that was the opinion of the majority of the people who live there. Go look up the numbers that Yanukovych won in Crimea, I think it might of been even more than what the referendum passed by. Ukraine is not really one country, western Ukraine is Galicia and probably closer to Poland than it is to the east of the country which is much much closer to Russia. Crimea being part of Ukraine at all was pretty much an accident, they have long wanted to leave Ukraine so what is hard to believe about the vote considering that the alternative was a violent anti-Russian illegal coup in Kiev. Crimea is Russian, there are no Ukrainians there. The US/EU/Soros thought they could throw Russia out of the Black Sea all together, Ukraine is one the foreign policy establishment's "global pivot points" and think that the only way they can stop Russia from regaining it's footing as global power is by pushing them out.