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Kraichgauer
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14 Feb 2017, 5:15 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Spooks at the CIA and Pentagon wanted Flynn out, simple as that. Perfect example of the Military-Industrial Complex and deep state. What is controversial at all about the Flynn talking to his Russian counterpart while in the transitory period? Nonsense about blackmail makes absolutely zero sense, a lack of democratic control of our country's foreign policy is the problem.

You want conflict with Russia, be it protracted or direct because you have been indoctrinated your whole life to hate them but your fear is misplaced and we have far more to fear by people within our own government that those abroad. I do not support McCarthyite witch hunts nor do I accept the moral pedestal these literal terrorist supporters put themselves on, why is Russia such an insidious threat to the US when you compare them to other countries we have relations with and even call allies?



That was because, even though he was a good field intelligence officer, at the Pentagon level, he was literally considered an unreleiable nutcase. His coworkers would say, "There are facts, then there are Flynn facts." His assessments were considered highly suspect, based on jumping to conclusions with flimsy evidence, or contrary to the evidence. Trump took him in because he supported Trump's baseless ideas of Syrian refugees being ISIS agents and terrorists.


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14 Feb 2017, 5:30 pm

It's a shame about Flynn. There was nothing wrong in speaking with Russia but he shouldn't have lied about it.


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14 Feb 2017, 5:52 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
It's a shame about Flynn. There was nothing wrong in speaking with Russia but he shouldn't have lied about it.



There was something wrong with it, as private citizens cannot legally engage in foreign policy, which is what Flynn did when discussing ending ending sanctions on Russia prior to Trump becoming President.


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14 Feb 2017, 6:40 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It's a shame about Flynn. There was nothing wrong in speaking with Russia but he shouldn't have lied about it.



There was something wrong with it, as private citizens cannot legally engage in foreign policy, which is what Flynn did when discussing ending ending sanctions on Russia prior to Trump becoming President.


Sounds about right. Private citizens have no role in foreign policy. That's down to the arms industry, bankers and multinational corporations.


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14 Feb 2017, 6:52 pm

We can't have people in presidential campaigns colluding with foreign leaders. Or rather, it had to be made illegal so that we can at least punish people who do it. There's only so much we can practically do to punish other governments, but we can and should punish Americans who help foreign powers interfere in our elections. To be fair, I'd like us to punish Americans who interfere in anyone's democratic processes.

For the record, I have consistently spoken out about US government interference in other people's elections, and of course various efforts by the US state governments to disenfranchise people here in the US.


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beneficii
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14 Feb 2017, 8:58 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
We can't have people in presidential campaigns colluding with foreign leaders. Or rather, it had to be made illegal so that we can at least punish people who do it. There's only so much we can practically do to punish other governments, but we can and should punish Americans who help foreign powers interfere in our elections. To be fair, I'd like us to punish Americans who interfere in anyone's democratic processes.

For the record, I have consistently spoken out about US government interference in other people's elections, and of course various efforts by the US state governments to disenfranchise people here in the US.


IMO, we should stop trying to extend laws to US citizens, especially considering how many accidental Americans there are due to our jus solis laws, and how hard it is to renounce or relinquish US citizenship these days (where you always gotta pay $2350, the highest such fee in the world, more than double 2nd place Jamaica's fee and 20 times the OECD average). Like with the crap we're doing with our unique citzenship-based taxation policy and FBAR where "US persons" must file annual taxes and financial account reporting every year no matter how long they've been abroad or how little connection they have to this country, it just ends up becoming an excuse to increasingly extend US jurisdiction over the whole world like how with FATCA we strong arm foreign banks into releasing US persons' account information, without reciprocation and without reimbursimg foreign banks for their expenses.

By going along with this, you're just playing into the hands of the Washington bureaucrats who want to dominate the globe and exploit other countries for their resources, which include also financial and human resources. This madness has got to stop, and it's clear by our Empire's increasingly deranged actions and policies that there's a lot more pain coming.


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jrjones9933
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14 Feb 2017, 8:59 pm

beneficii wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
We can't have people in presidential campaigns colluding with foreign leaders. Or rather, it had to be made illegal so that we can at least punish people who do it. There's only so much we can practically do to punish other governments, but we can and should punish Americans who help foreign powers interfere in our elections. To be fair, I'd like us to punish Americans who interfere in anyone's democratic processes.

For the record, I have consistently spoken out about US government interference in other people's elections, and of course various efforts by the US state governments to disenfranchise people here in the US.


IMO, we should stop trying to extend laws to US citizens, especially considering how many accidental Americans there are due to our jus solis laws, and how hard it is to renounce or relinquish US citizenship these days (where you always gotta pay $2350, the highest such fee in the world, more than double 2nd place Jamaica's fee and 20 times the OECD average). Like with the crap we're doing with our unique citzenship-based taxation policy and FBAR where "US persons" must file annual taxes and financial account reporting every year no matter how long they've been abroad or how little connection they have to this country, it just ends up becoming an excuse to increasingly extend US jurisdiction over the whole world like how with FATCA we strong arm foreign banks into releasing US persons' account information, without reciprocation and without reimbursimg foreign banks for their expenses.

By going along with this, you're just playing into the hands of the Washington bureaucrats who want to dominate the globe and exploit other countries for their resources, which include also financial and human resources. This madness has got to stop, and it's clear by our Empire's increasingly deranged actions and policies that there's a lot more pain coming.

I'm probably not the best foil for your personal crusade. Your comment misses the mark by a mile.


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beneficii
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14 Feb 2017, 9:12 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
beneficii wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
We can't have people in presidential campaigns colluding with foreign leaders. Or rather, it had to be made illegal so that we can at least punish people who do it. There's only so much we can practically do to punish other governments, but we can and should punish Americans who help foreign powers interfere in our elections. To be fair, I'd like us to punish Americans who interfere in anyone's democratic processes.

For the record, I have consistently spoken out about US government interference in other people's elections, and of course various efforts by the US state governments to disenfranchise people here in the US.


IMO, we should stop trying to extend laws to US citizens, especially considering how many accidental Americans there are due to our jus solis laws, and how hard it is to renounce or relinquish US citizenship these days (where you always gotta pay $2350, the highest such fee in the world, more than double 2nd place Jamaica's fee and 20 times the OECD average). Like with the crap we're doing with our unique citzenship-based taxation policy and FBAR where "US persons" must file annual taxes and financial account reporting every year no matter how long they've been abroad or how little connection they have to this country, it just ends up becoming an excuse to increasingly extend US jurisdiction over the whole world like how with FATCA we strong arm foreign banks into releasing US persons' account information, without reciprocation and without reimbursimg foreign banks for their expenses.

By going along with this, you're just playing into the hands of the Washington bureaucrats who want to dominate the globe and exploit other countries for their resources, which include also financial and human resources. This madness has got to stop, and it's clear by our Empire's increasingly deranged actions and policies that there's a lot more pain coming.

I'm probably not the best foil for your personal crusade. Your comment misses the mark by a mile.


Hey, people are getting hurt by our actions, which we insist on continuing. Americans living abroad are just one example of that. In addition, these actions have the effect of pulling resources from abroad back home, so it's clear their purpose is to exploit.

This crap that we're doing, all these games we're playing, all these people we're hurting, is a big part of why so many Americans are getting sick and tired of our current system and why we have someone like Trump in office in the first place. (And remember, Trump won 29% of the Hispanic vote, meaning that a lot of Hispanics were willing to overlook his overt racism to keep Clinton from taking office.)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11 ... emale-vot/

(In 2012, Romney only got 27% of the Hispanic vote, so Trump actually improved on Romney's total.)

This is a time for big ideas, not playing a game of who the lesser evil is, or might be.


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14 Feb 2017, 10:00 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Breitbart is a private enterprise, and so was never bound to provide free speech to anyone they didn't want to, anymore than Huffington Post on the left does.


I said they didn't deny it, not that they were bound to it.


Kraichgauer wrote:
The fact that Breitbart allowed people known for racism and out-and-out lunacy to use their publication as a soapbox shows how Bannon, as their editor, was and is, sympathetic to those ugly ideas. Sure, you can say Bannon simply wanted to just give equal time to people who say blacks are guilty of most crimes, that the Holocaust never happened, and that non-white Americans should be deported, but why would any decent person want to?


I can't tell if those are actual facts or biased sensationalist accusations.



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14 Feb 2017, 10:52 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Breitbart is a private enterprise, and so was never bound to provide free speech to anyone they didn't want to, anymore than Huffington Post on the left does.


I said they didn't deny it, not that they were bound to it.


Kraichgauer wrote:
The fact that Breitbart allowed people known for racism and out-and-out lunacy to use their publication as a soapbox shows how Bannon, as their editor, was and is, sympathetic to those ugly ideas. Sure, you can say Bannon simply wanted to just give equal time to people who say blacks are guilty of most crimes, that the Holocaust never happened, and that non-white Americans should be deported, but why would any decent person want to?


I can't tell if those are actual facts or biased sensationalist accusations.


You honestly don't believe Alt Right white nationalists promote such ideas? Because they do.


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EzraS
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14 Feb 2017, 11:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Breitbart is a private enterprise, and so was never bound to provide free speech to anyone they didn't want to, anymore than Huffington Post on the left does.


I said they didn't deny it, not that they were bound to it.


Kraichgauer wrote:
The fact that Breitbart allowed people known for racism and out-and-out lunacy to use their publication as a soapbox shows how Bannon, as their editor, was and is, sympathetic to those ugly ideas. Sure, you can say Bannon simply wanted to just give equal time to people who say blacks are guilty of most crimes, that the Holocaust never happened, and that non-white Americans should be deported, but why would any decent person want to?


I can't tell if those are actual facts or biased sensationalist accusations.


You honestly don't believe Alt Right white nationalists promote such ideas? Because they do.


From what I could ascertain, "alt-right" is one of many labels invented by the ctrl-left to brand people with.

I've read about Holocaust denial from several sources. And as a side note, a thing I've picked up on that I've found irritating, is leftist predilection to trivialize the Holocaust by comparing so many trivial things by comparison to it, which could suggest they don't take it seriously.

And are you saying that Breitbart has said every single non-white person in America should be deported?

People claim the Bible says that women are inferior, that it promotes gays being put to death, that it promotes slavery, that it promotes genocide etc. It's all about how someone chooses to contextualize things. If someone is anti-Bible, that's how they are going to see what the Bible says. But you being a Christian however will probably deny the Bible promotes those things.



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15 Feb 2017, 12:17 am

Earthbound wrote:
No, how about not turning things into jokes? This is a serious matter, even if you don't want to think so.

A joke to "lighten the mood" or whatever isn't the answer, period.


Occasional satire is not against the rules and you don't get to tell people what to do :P



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15 Feb 2017, 1:37 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Breitbart is a private enterprise, and so was never bound to provide free speech to anyone they didn't want to, anymore than Huffington Post on the left does.


I said they didn't deny it, not that they were bound to it.


Kraichgauer wrote:
The fact that Breitbart allowed people known for racism and out-and-out lunacy to use their publication as a soapbox shows how Bannon, as their editor, was and is, sympathetic to those ugly ideas. Sure, you can say Bannon simply wanted to just give equal time to people who say blacks are guilty of most crimes, that the Holocaust never happened, and that non-white Americans should be deported, but why would any decent person want to?


I can't tell if those are actual facts or biased sensationalist accusations.


You honestly don't believe Alt Right white nationalists promote such ideas? Because they do.


From what I could ascertain, "alt-right" is one of many labels invented by the ctrl-left to brand people with.

I've read about Holocaust denial from several sources. And as a side note, a thing I've picked up on that I've found irritating, is leftist predilection to trivialize the Holocaust by comparing so many trivial things by comparison to it, which could suggest they don't take it seriously.

And are you saying that Breitbart has said every single non-white person in America should be deported?

People claim the Bible says that women are inferior, that it promotes gays being put to death, that it promotes slavery, that it promotes genocide etc. It's all about how someone chooses to contextualize things. If someone is anti-Bible, that's how they are going to see what the Bible says. But you being a Christian however will probably deny the Bible promotes those things.


Richard Spencer, the Nzi who got punched out on live TV, calls himself the leader of the Alt Right movement. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the notion that the Alt Right designation was an invention of the left.
No, I'm saying the Alt Right white nationalists who they give a platform for, certainly do want to see non-white Americans deported.
No, I don't deny the Bible promotes slavery, subjugation of women, and homophobia. Then again, I hardly think everything in the Bible is of equal worth, and I believe the prejudices of the Biblical writers appear in their work, despite divine inspiration.


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15 Feb 2017, 8:57 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Richard Spencer, the Nzi who got punched out on live TV, calls himself the leader of the Alt Right movement. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the notion that the Alt Right designation was an invention of the left.


Oh yeah. I knew that but forgot. I got it confused with all the derogatory labels and pet names the left has invented.

Kraichgauer wrote:
No, I'm saying the Alt Right white nationalists who they give a platform for, certainly do want to see non-white Americans deported.
No, I don't deny the Bible promotes slavery, subjugation of women, and homophobia. Then again, I hardly think everything in the Bible is of equal worth, and I believe the prejudices of the Biblical writers appear in their work, despite divine inspiration.


So all of the alt-right white nationalists are like a single minded entity? Because I know of many Christians who want to see homosexuality wiped from the face of the Earth. Who firmly believe women are inferior to men. And so on. Because their Bible says so. So shouldn't I be bothered by any publication that gives them a platform? Those are rhetorical questions of course. But at the same time it seems like I could make such a stance within reason. But anyways, is Spencer on record saying all non-white Americans should be deported? Did Breitbart ever publish that statement?



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15 Feb 2017, 11:46 am

Ban-Dodger wrote:
Americans and their incredible stupidity are actually a FAR BIGGER THREAT to World-Peace than terrorists...


Be careful. I got temporarily banned from WP a few weeks ago because I told the truth.



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16 Feb 2017, 3:29 pm

Danielle Ryan, an Irish freelance journalist at Salon, makes a convincing argument that what they're getting on Flynn for really isn't all that impressive--the cover-up was worse than the "crime--, and that the Deep State doesn't like Trump and is trying to undermine them, in the hopes of keeping this country in a perpetual state of war, cold or hot:

http://www.salon.com/2017/02/16/is-mich ... newsletter

There's also this at the end, a threat from the top Democrat in the Senate:

Quote:
Last month Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer warned that Trump was “really dumb” to criticize the intelligence community because the spy agencies have “six ways from Sunday of getting back at you.” In retrospect, that statement reads as pretty ominous. Almost no one noticed it at the time.


Schumer was also one of the main architects of FATCA where the US forces all foreign financial institutions, even if they have no US presence, to do work for it without remuneration--wielding the dollar's reserve currency status as a stick--in order to try to "suck" as much money from abroad to back home while hurting our expats.

Schumer is a pretty rotten human being, and seems to be an ally of the Deep State. As progressives, we should not throw our support behind someone like this.


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