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Trump's War on Trans Rights

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BTDT
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29 Aug 2017, 8:47 am

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2017 ... -than-men/
This article suggests that women are more "coachable" than men when it comes to firing .45 handguns.

With only this unscientific history I offer this explanation: The women were more coachable. Told how to hold the gun, that’s the way they held it. Told to look at the front sight, that’s what they looked at. Told what I thought they were doing wrong, their first instinct was to believe me. Among the male shooters that had problems, those traits were less common. I believe Ray Arredondo was able to overcome my male “thickness” because he showed me in a way that I couldn’t deny that I didn’t know what I was doing, and that I could stand to benefit by coaching. Maybe the women I trained were already there.



Chichikov
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29 Aug 2017, 9:18 am

emmasma wrote:
If dragging a person is the test then no problem, I could do that easily.

No you couldn't. You couldn't lift and carry people as well as a trained man could, you couldn't carry as much equipment for as long as a trained man could.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing things that everyone knows are true. If you think women are as physically capable as men are then there's no point even engaging with you.



Chichikov
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29 Aug 2017, 9:29 am

BTDT wrote:
https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2017/2/1/are-women-better-shooters-than-men/
This article suggests that women are more "coachable" than men when it comes to firing .45 handguns.

With only this unscientific history I offer this explanation: The women were more coachable. Told how to hold the gun, that’s the way they held it. Told to look at the front sight, that’s what they looked at. Told what I thought they were doing wrong, their first instinct was to believe me. Among the male shooters that had problems, those traits were less common. I believe Ray Arredondo was able to overcome my male “thickness” because he showed me in a way that I couldn’t deny that I didn’t know what I was doing, and that I could stand to benefit by coaching. Maybe the women I trained were already there.

That's not relevant in the context of the military where extensive training is given and ones less able to take on board instruction are weeded out.



kraftiekortie
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29 Aug 2017, 9:31 am

Go into a health care setting. Watch women nurses aides lift 300 pound people on and off beds.

It's more a matter of methodology than brute strength. You just have to "do it right."



emmasma
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29 Aug 2017, 9:52 am

Chichikov wrote:
emmasma wrote:
If dragging a person is the test then no problem, I could do that easily.

No you couldn't. You couldn't lift and carry people as well as a trained man could, you couldn't carry as much equipment for as long as a trained man could.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing things that everyone knows are true. If you think women are as physically capable as men are then there's no point even engaging with you.


As a teen in karate class we carried people heavier than ourselves on our shoulders. It is not impossible, not even hard. I am not saying that women are as physically strong as men. I'm saying that brute strength is not what wins modern battles. Also there are some women who are as physically strong as men. There are also men who are small and weak. Women can endure more pain than men (on average). There are instances in the field where women can do things that men can't such as getting crucial information from Muslim women who hold back with men. If the test is purely physical, though, it should be based on ability, not just if one is a man or woman. It doesn't matter anymore anyway because women are allowed in combat.



Last edited by emmasma on 29 Aug 2017, 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

BTDT
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29 Aug 2017, 9:55 am

Chichikov wrote:
BTDT wrote:
https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2017/2/1/are-women-better-shooters-than-men/
This article suggests that women are more "coachable" than men when it comes to firing .45 handguns.

With only this unscientific history I offer this explanation: The women were more coachable. Told how to hold the gun, that’s the way they held it. Told to look at the front sight, that’s what they looked at. Told what I thought they were doing wrong, their first instinct was to believe me. Among the male shooters that had problems, those traits were less common. I believe Ray Arredondo was able to overcome my male “thickness” because he showed me in a way that I couldn’t deny that I didn’t know what I was doing, and that I could stand to benefit by coaching. Maybe the women I trained were already there.

That's not relevant in the context of the military where extensive training is given and ones less able to take on board instruction are weeded out.

But this was written by a retired Colonel who also wrote:

after 32 years of military coaching and training, I do know this:

1. Every woman I ever trained on the Army .45 fired Expert on the first day of training.



Chichikov
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29 Aug 2017, 10:09 am

BTDT wrote:

1. Every woman I ever trained on the Army .45 fired Expert on the first day of training.

Men are more likely to have fired guns before and have developed bad habits which is why women often do better from initial training as men may well need to be trained out of bad habits. As I said, this is irrelevant in a military context as a soldier gets lots of expert training and those not suited don't make the grade. The first day is irrelevant, it's how they end up that matters. There's nothing really gender specific that makes one better at shooting than another.

https://www.corneredcat.com/women-make- ... r-do-they/



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29 Aug 2017, 2:17 pm

Chichikov wrote:
BTDT wrote:

1. Every woman I ever trained on the Army .45 fired Expert on the first day of training.

Men are more likely to have fired guns before and have developed bad habits which is why women often do better from initial training as men may well need to be trained out of bad habits. As I said, this is irrelevant in a military context as a soldier gets lots of expert training and those not suited don't make the grade. The first day is irrelevant, it's how they end up that matters. There's nothing really gender specific that makes one better at shooting than another.

https://www.corneredcat.com/women-make- ... r-do-they/


Am I sensing an underlying negative feeling toward the feminine sex in your posts that goes beyond women and trans serving in the military?


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Chichikov
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29 Aug 2017, 2:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
BTDT wrote:

1. Every woman I ever trained on the Army .45 fired Expert on the first day of training.

Men are more likely to have fired guns before and have developed bad habits which is why women often do better from initial training as men may well need to be trained out of bad habits. As I said, this is irrelevant in a military context as a soldier gets lots of expert training and those not suited don't make the grade. The first day is irrelevant, it's how they end up that matters. There's nothing really gender specific that makes one better at shooting than another.

https://www.corneredcat.com/women-make- ... r-do-they/


Am I sensing an underlying negative feeling toward the feminine sex in your posts that goes beyond women and trans serving in the military?

No. All I'm doing is pointing out that men are generally stronger and more physically capable than women. Sorry if facts offend you, but don't try and project anything into me.



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29 Aug 2017, 3:38 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
BTDT wrote:

1. Every woman I ever trained on the Army .45 fired Expert on the first day of training.

Men are more likely to have fired guns before and have developed bad habits which is why women often do better from initial training as men may well need to be trained out of bad habits. As I said, this is irrelevant in a military context as a soldier gets lots of expert training and those not suited don't make the grade. The first day is irrelevant, it's how they end up that matters. There's nothing really gender specific that makes one better at shooting than another.

https://www.corneredcat.com/women-make- ... r-do-they/


Am I sensing an underlying negative feeling toward the feminine sex in your posts that goes beyond women and trans serving in the military?

No. All I'm doing is pointing out that men are generally stronger and more physically capable than women. Sorry if facts offend you, but don't try and project anything into me.


But even physical strength differs among men. Some men who are weaker than other men might be weaker than some women.
I asked my initial question because we've had some very misogynistic men's rightsers here on WP on the past.


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29 Aug 2017, 4:08 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm not hijacking anything.

I'm talking about my view----that trans people shouldn't be excluded from the military because they are transsexual.


Chelsea Manning was booted out of the military for being a real hero. Now she uses the internet to fight against people who actually deserve our wrath.

If you are in the US military, you are fighting for the rich and powerful so that the oppressed can suffer more. Unfortunately, some youths are getting into the military just because the economy is crap and there are few other job opportunities.

I'm essentially saying that transpeople shouldn't want to be in the military. Nobody should want to be an American soldier or an American cop at this point in history, since they serve the forces of capitalism and white supremacy.


I was in the military for 8 years.

No regrets.


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29 Aug 2017, 4:09 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
BTDT wrote:

1. Every woman I ever trained on the Army .45 fired Expert on the first day of training.

Men are more likely to have fired guns before and have developed bad habits which is why women often do better from initial training as men may well need to be trained out of bad habits. As I said, this is irrelevant in a military context as a soldier gets lots of expert training and those not suited don't make the grade. The first day is irrelevant, it's how they end up that matters. There's nothing really gender specific that makes one better at shooting than another.

https://www.corneredcat.com/women-make- ... r-do-they/


Am I sensing an underlying negative feeling toward the feminine sex in your posts that goes beyond women and trans serving in the military?

No. All I'm doing is pointing out that men are generally stronger and more physically capable than women. Sorry if facts offend you, but don't try and project anything into me.


Going to agree with you here.

99% of women can't come anywhere near the required physical standards of combat training.


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29 Aug 2017, 5:14 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
99% of women can't come anywhere near the required physical standards of combat training.


I actually was sacked from a job around 15 yrs for saying this at a work lunch

There is an added issue of demoralisation when a female trooper gets captured by the enemy and is paraded around on youtube surrounded by big hairy Arab men.



Chichikov
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29 Aug 2017, 6:34 pm

cyberdad wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
99% of women can't come anywhere near the required physical standards of combat training.


I actually was sacked from a job around 15 yrs for saying this at a work lunch

There is an added issue of demoralisation when a female trooper gets captured by the enemy and is paraded around on youtube surrounded by big hairy Arab men.

Yes, and a greater chance of rape etc, or threat of rape as a way of leverage or torture.



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29 Aug 2017, 6:58 pm

cyberdad wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
99% of women can't come anywhere near the required physical standards of combat training.


I actually was sacked from a job around 15 yrs for saying this at a work lunch


Lesson Learned: There are some true things that a man can't say. Deal with it.

That's why men invented science fiction. The best way to deal with this ultra-PC insanity is to drift into fantasy land and pretend it's not there. :lol:

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emmasma
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29 Aug 2017, 7:18 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Yes, and a greater chance of rape etc, or threat of rape as a way of leverage or torture.


One in 5 get raped right in the US. Should we ban them from the colleges? It happens all the time on University campuses. It is a bad thing that mostly happens to women, but keeping them out of the armed forces wont stop it at all. Compared to the other forms of torture I'm not sure that it is worse. It could not possibly be worse than beheading videos or even waterboarding. It would only be worse if they did other things to hurt her, but that is torture in general and men are just as likely to be tortured.

Have there been any of our woman soldiers raped by enemies since they were able to be in the field with men? I have not heard of any, but I could have missed it. The only instance I found in a quick Google search was Jessica Lynch in 2003. Many others have died and had debilitating injuries, like any other soldiers.

There have been many raped by their fellow male soldiers. That happens on a regular basis. It's a thing and it often goes unpunished. That is a problem with military law and men not being disciplined for their actions, not with allowing women to be there.