Trump Declaring War on 1.5 Million muslims

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goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 5:02 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

nephets wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Wtf are they fighting over, anyways?

From what I gather, at least 3 different religions (Jews, Christians, Muslims) all claim that Jerusalem is sacred & Holy to them, right? So, shouldn't that make it about the most peaceful well preserved piece of land on the face of the planet? If all of these people are so religious and that land is so special, why are none of them behaving in the ways of the teachings of their chosen faith nor protecting the city so it's preserved for all to enjoy into virtual perpetuity?

Or have I got something terribly wrong here?

The Zionist ideology is that they have a racial right to that area, because they are the chosen race of God. They see the Palestinians as vermin and want them removed. Like Moshe Dayan said in the 60's "we must tell the Palestinians, that we have no solution, you shall continue to live like dogs, and whoever wishes, may leave."

Of course there's the religious issues too, but the main thing here is that East Jerusalem is meant to be the capital of a proposed future Palestinian state.

Zionism, by the way, is secular, i.e, is not religious.When and where did Dayan say that, please? But hey, apart from being wrong about everything, good contribution.

Chosen race of God? You mean the Human Race? Which is supposedly made in the image of God.. no? Brings me back full circle to the point that anyone fighting over there for "religious" reasons isn't very religious at all or they wouldn't be killing each other and blaming their actions on their religion.

The whole thing is ridiculous. Has always been so, will always be so. Small arguments over territory or big wars in the name of faith, whatever - all the same petty crap and it's not likely to ever be resolved by rational peaceful talks because neither side has rational peaceful people.

When people come to your country, mass murder you, force hundreds of thousands of you to leave and move into your houses. Then torture you for decades, it's something to fight against.

I suppose for some it is, for others, like the people that happened to here where I live, they're not a violent lot in general. More than 200 Million of their people were murdered in one of the largest genocides in human history, if not the largest, and then they suffered a few generations of abuse - that continues - and while their people are, for all intents and purposes, in ruins.. they're slowly rebuilding, overcoming, and carrying on. Exactly zero of them have blown anything up.* Their fights are much more civil. Their fights are for equality at work and in society & don't centre around bloodshed whatsoever.

*Except for maybe a pipeline here or there in protest of further destruction of their homeland.

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nephets
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10 Dec 2017, 5:12 pm

When people come to your country, mass murder you, force hundreds of thousands of you to leave and move into your houses. Then torture you for decades, it's something to fight against.[/quote]

When middle class left-wingers who have no idea about the Middle East choose to pick on the smallest country in the region, which happens to be the only democracy and choose to remain silent about the chaos around that country, you have to question their motives, do you not? Why is the Israeli occupation of the West Bank an issue for you, but the wholesale slaughter in Syria, or Iraq or Iran, not an issue for you? How about the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Jews and Christians from Muslim countries in the last 50 years? I'll bet you don't care about that. I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not Jewish or Muslim, but I recognize middle-class. left-wing, anti-semitism when I see it.

goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 5:32 pm

nephets wrote:

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not Jewish or Muslim, but I recognize middle-class. left-wing, anti-semitism when I see it.

Is it, though? Or is it just the low hanging fruit in Trump's game of "wag the dog" ? Kinda looks like that to me.. one of the easiest wars to provoke by throwing just a little fuel on the fire with a few words in a speech and presto, insta-war to distract from his ever growing failings at home.

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JohnPowell
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10 Dec 2017, 5:38 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

nephets wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Zionism, by the way, is secular, i.e, is not religious.When and where did Dayan say that, please? But hey, apart from being wrong about everything, good contribution.

When people come to your country, mass murder you, force hundreds of thousands of you to leave and move into your houses. Then torture you for decades, it's something to fight against.

Oh right, like there wasn't a violent resistance from the natives in America when it first started! There's no violent resistance now because the job is done. Palestinians still have hope.

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goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 5:43 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

Oh right, like there wasn't a violent resistance from the natives in America when it first started! There's no violent resistance now because the job is done. Palestinians still have hope.

Hope of what? Perpetual war?

Doesn't seem like either side wants peace or they'd have it.

Really, this is only going to end when one side claims victory and the other concedes defeat. As it has been & always will be with every war over territory.

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JohnPowell
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10 Dec 2017, 5:47 pm

nephets wrote:

When people come to your country, mass murder you, force hundreds of thousands of you to leave and move into your houses. Then torture you for decades, it's something to fight against.

When middle class left-wingers who have no idea about the Middle East choose to pick on the smallest country in the region, which happens to be the only democracy and choose to remain silent about the chaos around that country, you have to question their motives, do you not? Why is the Israeli occupation of the West Bank an issue for you, but the wholesale slaughter in Syria, or Iraq or Iran, not an issue for you? How about the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Jews and Christians from Muslim countries in the last 50 years? I'll bet you don't care about that. I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not Jewish or Muslim, but I recognize middle-class. left-wing, anti-semitism when I see it.[/quote]

As I already said, debunking your garbage about Israel being a poor wittle state being bullied. It is one of the top military forces in the world, with hundreds of nukes, backed in every way by the most powerful military in the world. So enough with that nonsense. Plenty of other democracies in the region. And Israel is hardly a real democracy when it goes into illegally occupied territories, captures innocent people and puts them into their secret prison system and torture chambers. It imprisoned the guy who proved they have nukes. It attacks people if they vote the wrong way. Israel have created pretty much all of the chaos in surrounding countries! That's why. So great examples. I have spoke a lot about Syria and Iraq. Both wars for Israel. I'm no fan of Iran, but they don't go round attacking every other country in the region. Israel wants nothing more than for Jews to be expelled from other countries so they can move them into Palestinian homes and land.

For one, I'm not "left wing". Secondly, I'm working class, whatever that means. And thirdly, I'm not antisemitic, as in hating Jews for being Jewish. I hate Zionism and what it does.

JohnPowell
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10 Dec 2017, 5:48 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

Oh right, like there wasn't a violent resistance from the natives in America when it first started! There's no violent resistance now because the job is done. Palestinians still have hope.

Hope for self determination in their own state. They want peace, but Israel and the US have blocked it every time.

goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 5:56 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

Oh right, like there wasn't a violent resistance from the natives in America when it first started! There's no violent resistance now because the job is done. Palestinians still have hope.

Hope for self determination in their own state. They want peace, but Israel and the US have blocked it every time.

Why do they express their want of peace by launching rockets into neighbouring territory?

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kokopelli
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10 Dec 2017, 6:20 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

nephets wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Zionism, by the way, is secular, i.e, is not religious.When and where did Dayan say that, please? But hey, apart from being wrong about everything, good contribution.

When people come to your country, mass murder you, force hundreds of thousands of you to leave and move into your houses. Then torture you for decades, it's something to fight against.

More than 200 million? What people are you talking about?

kokopelli
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10 Dec 2017, 6:26 pm

nephets wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

nephets wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

nephets wrote:

Riiiiiight, Israel starts wars by being attacked? How does that work? Do we have a bit of a problem with Jewish people, perchance?

You can be anti-Zionist and not anti-Semitic all at the same time.You do know that some Jewish people oppose the way the Palestinian people are treated?
http://jfjfp.com
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.612072

Being anti-Zionist is the favourite cover for anti-semites all over. It's an excuse.

It always ticks me off that so many people dismiss all criticism of Israel as being antisemitic. Anyone who does that is hardly interested in truth.

Is it antisemitic to criticize Israel and Sharon in particular for their act of sending Phalangist militia into the camps of Sabra and Shatila to murder thousands of refugees while the IDF guarded the refugee camp for the entire three days of the massacre to make sure that the Phalangist miitia were not disturbed on their massive killing spree? There is no way to justify this action.

No, there is no way to justify that action. However, when people like you talk about the hundreds of atrocities visited by Israel's neighbours on each other, their own people, other types of Muslim and Israel you'll be taken more seriously. But you won't, because you dare not criticize Islam. It's far easier to go after the only democracy in the whole area, is it not?

Where the hell do you get the idiotic idea that I don't criticize Islam?

Don't ever try to put words in my mouth or make absurd claims about my position on anything again.

Last edited by kokopelli on 10 Dec 2017, 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kokopelli
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10 Dec 2017, 6:35 pm

nephits:

Do you want to know what I really think about all that?

I think the Israelis and the Palestinians and other Muslims deserve each other. I'm all in favor of withdrawing all support to all sides from all countries, taking away their modern weapons, and letting them fight it out between them with knives and spears until they are so sick of fighting that they will do anything to achieve a lasting peace.

Until they all get sick of fighting, nothing is going to be solved.

Last edited by kokopelli on 10 Dec 2017, 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JohnPowell
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10 Dec 2017, 6:38 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

Oh right, like there wasn't a violent resistance from the natives in America when it first started! There's no violent resistance now because the job is done. Palestinians still have hope.

Hope for self determination in their own state. They want peace, but Israel and the US have blocked it every time.

Why do they express their want of peace by launching rockets into neighbouring territory?

That simple is it? They've always agreed to peace deals since the mid 70's that are rejected by Israel and the US. You won't understand anything if you just listen to Israeli propaganda where the story always starts in the middle.

Take 2008. There was a ceasefire in the summer. Not one rocket was fired by Hamas, though Israel still kept the siege on Gaza, which is against International Law. Then Israel went in that winter and killed some Hamas members, plus children and a disabled man. Then Hamas responded with 'rockets'. Then Israel went in and carpet bombed Gaza.

Tim_Tex
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10 Dec 2017, 8:43 pm

Hasn't Jerusalem been established as the capital for quite a while?

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Misslizard
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10 Dec 2017, 10:05 pm

nephets wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

nephets wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

nephets wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

/\They have Jewish only highways?What happens if you drive on one and you're not Jewish??
The checkpoints sound awful.

Yes, and building Jewish only cities on stolen land. Sometimes the new houses are built by bulldozing the Palestinian homes down first. I doubt that happens very often as there is a separate number plate system for Jews and Palestinians. As well as the checkpoints. Some Palestinians drove on the roads in 2012 as a protest and they were arrested and their cars were seized.

I was aware of the old olive groves being destroyed but had no idea of a segregated highway.Thats just wrong on so many ways.What if you needed to get someone to the hospital and couldn't use the highway?

Oh dear, there's a lot of people on here who believe the propaganda. Israeli (including Israeli Arabs, you know the ones with more rights than in Arab countries) have had to segregate themselves from the Palestinians after countless terror attacks. It is way too easy to blame the 4 million Jews, rather than the 100 million barbarians that surround them.

Barbarians?All of them?

No, not all of them, but enough of them. Perhaps you don't watch the news. Please name a Muslim country with a stable, democratic government in the Middle East.

Probably not the neocon news specials you watch.
Democracies are not always peaceful or stable.That's a joke.
UAE,Qatar,Oman,Jordan,Cypress are all stable and safe and I would have no fear traveling to any of those countries.You'd probably be more likely to get shot here in America by some nut job in a shopping mall.
Anyway,i don't think the Sufis are causing any problems.Or do you just hate all Muslims?

Not one of the countries you name is a democracy, excepting Cypress, which is a tree. I presume you meant Cyprus, which is mostly (the Greek part) a democracy and is not Muslim.

Not all democracies are safe or stable.
My bad on the spelling,I should have caught it.I garden and have two Cypress trees.A bald and pond.So yeah,I know it’s a tree.
There are Muslims in the northern part of Cyprus.

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10 Dec 2017, 11:56 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

When my pastor took a trip to Israel a few years ago, he was shocked by the way American evangelicals he was traveling with had such a low opinion of Palestinian Christians, disparagingly referring to them just as Arabs. My pastor told one of them, "They're your brothers and sisters in Christ!"

...but.. even if they look different & talk funny????

Yep.

Ah, I loved Scanners.

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Sweetleaf
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11 Dec 2017, 1:32 am

f**k Trump....he is not fit to be president.

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