Criminality & debt along partisan lines

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EzraS
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30 Dec 2019, 9:46 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

President Obama signs $8.7 billion food stamp cut into law

Obama's plan was to reduce payments, hardly the same as purging the welfare rolls of millions of people.

I'm not trying to do whataboutism. I am just noticing that other presidents have done things along the lines of cutting social security, food stamps and taxes etc.

EzraS
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30 Dec 2019, 9:51 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

You can't live on $30,000 a year in NYC.

I don't understand why someone who does not make a lot of money would live in NYC or San Francisco. Like "I live in a super expensive area I can't afford, so I expect tax payers to cover it for me".

goldfish21
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30 Dec 2019, 10:12 pm

EzraS wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

You can't live on $30,000 a year in NYC.

I don't understand why someone who does not make a lot of money would live in NYC or San Francisco. Like "I live in a super expensive area I can't afford, so I expect tax payers to cover it for me".

Because not all jobs pay six figures. Because they grew up there and have family, friends, roots, support, medical services etc there. Many reasons.

It’s like Vancouver.. it’s recently become astronomically expensive to live here & incomes are quite low, yet people stay and work and pay, live with family or several roommates etc. Very, VERY, few jobs pay enough to be able to actually afford to live here. Even highly paid professionals have their own struggles these days. As for the working poor - well, how can a city’s economy operate without them? Who would cook food or clean anything? Etc.

People just adapt because they don’t want to relocate due to the connections they have with other people (family, friends, coworkers etc), and, in the case of Vancouver - many stay for their connection to this place.. the mountains, forests, ocean etc.

But people don’t expect taxpayers to cover things for them for the most part - although ever more are slipping into poverty as this housing crisis deepens.

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EzraS
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30 Dec 2019, 11:00 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

EzraS wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

You can't live on $30,000 a year in NYC.

I don't understand why someone who does not make a lot of money would live in NYC or San Francisco. Like "I live in a super expensive area I can't afford, so I expect tax payers to cover it for me".

I'm talking about people expecting tax payers to cover costs for them of they live in a place that's too expensive or they have an expensive car they can't afford etc. I think that there are more people taking advantage of things like SNAP than some are willing to admit or believe. There are a lot of substance abusers who expect to be given free stuff. very liberal Seattle is full of them. They call the place Freeattle.

goldfish21
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30 Dec 2019, 11:38 pm

These people have No Money. When they fall on hard times, they are wherever they are, and they don’t have any cash or credit required to relocate elsewhere & start a new life. So, they beg in place where they are, essentially.

That covers quite a few of them.

Also, many don’t want to leave the West coast because the climate is mild and they an survive the winter outdoors. Going somewhere cheaper and being homeless in the middle of the country might be fatal due to low overnight temperatures. That explains the West coast being the destination for homeless people.

And then, for some, I’m sure they’ve accepted that they’re going to be dirt poor.. so may as well be dirt poor surrounded by some of the best scenery in the world, or in a truly world class city (NYC) etc.

Others stay for mental health/medical/addiction services that are unavailable in other locales.

So many reasons it isn’t necessarily ideal for poor people to just leave.

Although, many working class ppl here have said “f**k this,” and left - but that’s mostly people who want to own their own home or want to start a family and they’ve decided the math is easier just about anywhere else.

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EzraS
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31 Dec 2019, 12:06 am

I'm talking about abusers and you're talking about victims. Both exist.

kraftiekortie
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31 Dec 2019, 12:09 am

Probably more victims than abusers.

Kraichgauer
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31 Dec 2019, 12:25 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

President Obama signs $8.7 billion food stamp cut into law

Obama's plan was to reduce payments, hardly the same as purging the welfare rolls of millions of people.

I'm not trying to do whataboutism. I am just noticing that other presidents have done things along the lines of cutting social security, food stamps and taxes etc.

Making cuts is one thing, throwing people off of their only means of survival is quite another.

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EzraS
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31 Dec 2019, 12:28 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Probably more victims than abusers.

The thing is when I talk about abusers, that always gets waved away and is replaced by talk about the truly needy. I think the idea that there are leaches doesn't want to be addressed. Maybe because the notion that everyone on assistance are being called leaches wants to be maintained.

Last edited by EzraS on 31 Dec 2019, 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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31 Dec 2019, 12:36 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

President Obama signs $8.7 billion food stamp cut into law

Obama's plan was to reduce payments, hardly the same as purging the welfare rolls of millions of people.

I'm not trying to do whataboutism. I am just noticing that other presidents have done things along the lines of cutting social security, food stamps and taxes etc.

Making cuts is one thing, throwing people off of their only means of survival is quite another.

My "uncle" who is an aspie and has worked as a security guard for 30 years is another example. He's never asked for food stamps, even though under the current system he would probably swing it. And no offence to the man, he looks about 50 lbs overweight so he is hardly starving to death.

Kraichgauer
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31 Dec 2019, 12:54 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

President Obama signs $8.7 billion food stamp cut into law

Obama's plan was to reduce payments, hardly the same as purging the welfare rolls of millions of people.

I'm not trying to do whataboutism. I am just noticing that other presidents have done things along the lines of cutting social security, food stamps and taxes etc.

Making cuts is one thing, throwing people off of their only means of survival is quite another.

Well, good for him. Not everyone has the same circumstances that allow getting enough food. Ask many of the WP membership.

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EzraS
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31 Dec 2019, 1:08 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

President Obama signs $8.7 billion food stamp cut into law

Obama's plan was to reduce payments, hardly the same as purging the welfare rolls of millions of people.

I'm not trying to do whataboutism. I am just noticing that other presidents have done things along the lines of cutting social security, food stamps and taxes etc.

Making cuts is one thing, throwing people off of their only means of survival is quite another.

Well, good for him. Not everyone has the same circumstances that allow getting enough food. Ask many of the WP membership.

What do you mean by same circumstances? Do you mean those who are too disabled to maintain regular employment? (he makes slightly over minimum wage) If so, for the 94859856th time, that is not who I am talking about.

Kraichgauer
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31 Dec 2019, 1:18 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

President Obama signs $8.7 billion food stamp cut into law

Obama's plan was to reduce payments, hardly the same as purging the welfare rolls of millions of people.

I'm not trying to do whataboutism. I am just noticing that other presidents have done things along the lines of cutting social security, food stamps and taxes etc.

Making cuts is one thing, throwing people off of their only means of survival is quite another.

Well, good for him. Not everyone has the same circumstances that allow getting enough food. Ask many of the WP membership.

What do you mean by same circumstances? Do you mean those are too disabled to maintain regular employment? (he makes slightly over minimum wage) If so, for the 94859856th time, that is not who I am talking about.

No, I mean matters of frugality and cost of living. Not everyone lives in a place where goods and services are affordable. Some people don't consider just eking by to be really living, especially if one has a family to make happy.

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EzraS
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31 Dec 2019, 2:46 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

If I understand it right the SNAP cuts are directed at single working or employable people like him.

He lives near and works in Seattle. I talk with him via email. He says when he turned 18 he was on his own and worked in fast food joints until he became a security guard. He said all he had to do was stay away from drugs and be a dependable employee. He's always had an apartment and a car (went from moped to motorcycle to car) and able to cover his experiences.

Kraichgauer
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01 Jan 2020, 2:46 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Well, good for your uncle. But just because someone needs help from the government hardly means that they're weak or lacking moral fortitude.

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TheRobotLives
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01 Jan 2020, 2:57 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

TheRobotLives wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/her ... ed-changes

This is what Trump wants to do.

Right.

"Under this proposed rule, people whose gross income is 130 percent above the federal poverty line (slightly more than $16,000 for one person) or have more than $2,250 in assets, will no longer qualify to receive federal food benefits"

However, $16,000 + $12, 400 (standard deduction) + any other tax deductions.

So, a little more than $28, 400 for a single person.

Of course, more with children, more for a spouse.

A family with children could make $50,000 and still qualify.

Are you taking into account cost of living and medical coverage? Because those things can, and often do, leave people destitute.

At that income level, they likely get free ACA health care too.

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