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Pepe
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16 Apr 2020, 1:21 am

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Coronavirus cover-up fears as Dutton lashes WHO

Peter Dutton has backed a review into Australia’s ties with the World Health Organisation as he lashed the UN agency’s support for China’s wet markets..



EzraS
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16 Apr 2020, 2:55 am



goldfish21
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16 Apr 2020, 1:12 pm

^who is this guy’s audience? 12-15yo boys? Hard to take him seriously at all as a journalist when the language he uses sounds like he’s trying to appeal to rebellious teenagers.


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17 Apr 2020, 2:33 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
^who is this guy’s audience? 12-15yo boys? Hard to take him seriously at all as a journalist when the language he uses sounds like he’s trying to appeal to rebellious teenagers.


Considering the network he's on, I think he's aiming for an audience that have never matured beyond 12-15, even though they're now 4-5x that age.


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17 Apr 2020, 4:22 pm

I heard some guy in a news clip say that trump can’t cut funding to the WHO as the funds have already been appropriated by Congress.


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18 Apr 2020, 10:16 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
I heard some guy in a news clip say that trump can’t cut funding to the WHO as the funds have already been appropriated by Congress.


As usual this discussion mentioning the name "Trump" on WP is devoid of critical thought
Trump’s decisions are being driven so transparently by his petty domestic political problems suggests that the world shouldn’t look to Washington to provide responsible leadership any time soon. Trump now blames the WHO for being insufficiently critical of China’s early response to the virus, but he himself praised China’s cooperation with the WHO and separately lauded Beijing as recently as the end of March – before he started taking a battering in polls and needed ways to explain away his own failures. A president who used a daily public health briefing to show a propaganda video praising his own response to the disease is not one thinking in the visionary global terms needed to address this crisis.



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20 Apr 2020, 12:59 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
I was researching what TRUMP knew and when ... this is interesting ...
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trump ... ronavirus/

TRUMP:

Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — Trump in a CNBC interview.

Jan. 30: “We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it’s going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you.” — Trump in a speech in Michigan.

Feb. 10: “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” — Trump at the White House. (See our item “Will the New Coronavirus ‘Go Away’ in April?“)

Feb. 14: “There’s a theory that, in April, when it gets warm — historically, that has been able to kill the virus. So we don’t know yet; we’re not sure yet. But that’s around the corner.” — Trump in speaking to National Border Patrol Council members.

Feb. 23: “We have it very much under control in this country.” — Trump in speaking to reporters.

Feb. 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” — Trump in a tweet.

Feb. 26: “So we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.” — Trump at a White House briefing.

Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference.

Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” — Trump at a press conference, when asked if “U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading.”

Feb. 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” — Trump at a White House meeting with African American leaders.

Feb. 29: “And I’ve gotten to know these professionals. They’re incredible. And everything is under control. I mean, they’re very, very cool. They’ve done it, and they’ve done it well. Everything is really under control.” — Trump in a speech at the CPAC conference outside Washington, D.C.

March 4: “[W]e have a very small number of people in this country [infected]. We have a big country. The biggest impact we had was when we took the 40-plus people [from a cruise ship]. … We brought them back. We immediately quarantined them. But you add that to the numbers. But if you don’t add that to the numbers, we’re talking about very small numbers in the United States.” — Trump at a White House meeting with airline CEOs.

March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization. (See our item “Trump and the Coronavirus Death Rate.”)

March 7: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, we’ve done a great job with it.” — Trump, when asked by reporters if he was concerned about the arrival of the coronavirus in the Washington, D.C., area.

March 9: “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!” — Trump in a tweet.

March 10: “And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” — Trump after meeting with Republican senators.

A day later, on March 11, the WHO declared the global outbreak a pandemic.

“This is a pandemic,” President Donald Trump said at a March 17 press conference.


Outside of the March 11 item, this all seems to be a "Trump said", with very little about what he knew (as claimed in opening sentence) at the time of these statements.

Is it possible to compare this with what was being publicly said by China\WHO at the times, to prevent people using hindsight to imply what is now known was known at the time by the 2 groups (China and WHO) who should have had the most knowledge of what was occuring and what was recommended by them?

I have no issue with getting stuck into someone who is wrong, but the justification needs to be shown to be based on knowledge available at the time, not using hindsight mixed with information not available at the time...Much like critisism of China and WHO needs to be shown to be based on words\actions by them in relation to what was known by them at the time.



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20 Apr 2020, 1:11 am

Brictoria wrote:
I have no issue with getting stuck into someone who is wrong, but the justification needs to be shown to be based on knowledge available at the time, not using hindsight mixed with information not available at the time...Much like critisism of China and WHO needs to be shown to be based on words\actions by them in relation to what was known by them at the time.


Hindsight means nothing when you are in the middle of damage control, have you heard of vicarious liability? there are multiple contributors to the current mess with COVID1-19. Like the Billy Joel song - America may not have started the fire but by dragging their heels over shutdowns and taking money away from WHO trump is certainly fanning the flames.



Brictoria
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20 Apr 2020, 10:05 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
I have no issue with getting stuck into someone who is wrong, but the justification needs to be shown to be based on knowledge available at the time, not using hindsight mixed with information not available at the time...Much like critisism of China and WHO needs to be shown to be based on words\actions by them in relation to what was known by them at the time.


Hindsight means nothing when you are in the middle of damage control, have you heard of vicarious liability? there are multiple contributors to the current mess with COVID1-19. Like the Billy Joel song - America may not have started the fire but by dragging their heels over shutdowns and taking money away from WHO trump is certainly fanning the flames.


So, what you are saying is that you are happy to attack someone for saying or doing something based on the information they had available to them at the time and not on information which was discovered\communicated to them some time after the statement\action...

Following that logic, I guess you also hold whoever issues a drivers licence to a person who some years later kills someone in a vehicle accident as being guilty of having assisted in the accident?

Personally, I prefer to take an objective look at facts rather than allowing partisan opinions to affect my understanding of events. Sadly, few people on this site seem capable of doing the same.



Pepe
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20 Apr 2020, 6:30 pm

Brictoria wrote:

Personally, I prefer to take an objective look at facts rather than allowing partisan opinions to affect my understanding of events. Sadly, few people on this site seem capable of doing the same.


Tell me about it. 8O

When I joined this website, I had unrealistic expectations that intellectuality and objectivity would be predominant in an autistic community.
I was disappointed at the preponderance of emotionalism, irrationality, groupthink and partisanship.
It was an eye-opener.

I think Tony Attwood needs to revise his assessment on the characteristics of those on the spectrum.
Well, at least introduce the concept of assessing the proportion/percentage of those who willingly embrace the autistic ideal.

As I have said many times: It is my firm belief that many on the spectrum are corrupted/confused by toxic neurotypical social protocols. 8)



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20 Apr 2020, 7:14 pm

Glad he did it.


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Pepe
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20 Apr 2020, 8:33 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
Glad he did it.


Mee too.
Erm,
What are we agreeing on, again? :scratch: :mrgreen:

<thinks to self>
I think she is talking about Trump, you moron.
D'oh!



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20 Apr 2020, 9:47 pm

Brictoria wrote:
So, what you are saying is that you are happy to attack someone for saying or doing something based on the information they had available to them at the time and not on information which was discovered\communicated to them some time after the statement\action...


You are projecting what Trump might/might not have known. Based on intelligence known as early as late November it's highly likely that Trump was made aware of certain risks. it was his decision to cut finding to the CDC, cut funding to the WHO and not to act earlier when the opportunity was there.

Vicarious liability is not about lumping blame but for all parties taking responsibility for errors made. I am making it clear there are multiple contributors to the current situation.

Make no mistake, China and their pet virus are where the buck ultimately stops. I would like to see maximum penalties (whatever they may be) applied to the CCP even if (unfortunately) it will cause more pain for the Chinese people in future. They must be accountable for the cause.



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20 Apr 2020, 10:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
So, what you are saying is that you are happy to attack someone for saying or doing something based on the information they had available to them at the time and not on information which was discovered\communicated to them some time after the statement\action...


You are projecting what Trump might/might not have known. Based on intelligence known as early as late November it's highly likely that Trump was made aware of certain risks. it was his decision to cut finding to the CDC, cut funding to the WHO and not to act earlier when the opportunity was there.

To clarify:
The coronavirus first appeared in December in China.
CDC funding cuts were proposed with regards to Chronic illness and have not even been approved\passed.
WHO funding cut is a result of their handling of the coronavirus and the poor\faulty information provided.
As late as the end of February, senior politicians (who would have been aware of current information regarding the coronavirus) were encouraging people to join in large gatherings.

I'm not really seeing much here that relates to "intelligence known as early as late November", rather I'm seeing an attempt to twist facts to fit a narrative through the use of hindsight. Of course, if you have other "intelligence" from late November related to a disease which started in December and which was considered by many politicians in late February as not being serious, I'd be happy to seee it.

cyberdad wrote:
Vicarious liability is not about lumping blame but for all parties taking responsibility for errors made. I am making it clear there are multiple contributors to the current situation.


And yet, up until this point, all I have seen are attacks on someone through the use of hindsight, and no indication of any reputably sourced information at the time of actions/statements that was ignored.

cyberdad wrote:
Make no mistake, China and their pet virus are where the buck ultimately stops. I would like to see maximum penalties (whatever they may be) applied to the CCP even if (unfortunately) it will cause more pain for the Chinese people in future. They must be accountable for the cause.


And here I agree with you 100%.

From what I have seen/understand of their handling of this, it has been their efforts to "save face" within their country that has caused the coronavirus to be unleashed, particularly with their ban on internal travel to/from Wuhan whilst still permitting international travel early on in the outbreak (coupled with their protests when countries started banning travel from China).



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20 Apr 2020, 10:43 pm

Brictoria wrote:
I'm not really seeing much here that relates to "intelligence known as early as late November", rather I'm seeing an attempt to twist facts to fit a narrative through the use of hindsight. Of course, if you have other "intelligence" from late November related to a disease which started in December and which was considered by many politicians in late February as not being serious, I'd be happy to seee it.


Its been doing the rounds across all the major news outlets including Fox
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelli ... d=70031273



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20 Apr 2020, 10:53 pm

Pepe wrote:
blackicmenace wrote:
cberg wrote:
Just going to flat out say it, this is a dumb thread full of dumb posts.

Seriously? Defunding healthcare while millions are sick & thousands are dying?

WTF people!?


Oh no, no, it will definitely help stop the spread of a pandemic. Totally not shameless misdirection because of his complete incompetence.


I am surprised you didn't know that the W.H.O. was complicit in covering up the danger of the coronavirus. :scratch:


Does that also magically mean they're not the largest asset on the planet for dealing with the virus? What does your precious blame do for you if you're suffocating? What kind of virus cares who gets the last word?


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