In Portland: Get vaccinated or get fired

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Nades
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05 Sep 2021, 6:49 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

There was never much of an issue with getting any vaccine other than the COVID vaccine.

There were always anti-vaxxers….but they were very much a fringe element.

If everybody got the COVID vaccine like what occurred with the other vaccines, we wouldn’t have much of a problem with breakthrough cases, or with variants floating around.

It appears that immunity is starting to take a nosedive despite an outstanding vaccine rollout in some nations. The UK and Israel being an example. I think vaccine take-up could be 100% and we will still have to deal with draconion restrictions.

The limits of the vaccine are becoming obvious now and those limits don't appear to within the threshold for any sense of normality to return. It's over as far as I'm concerned and science has reached its limit to what it can do. Its time for the masks to come off and restrictions to be ignored....unless you're Australian.

DW_a_mom
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05 Sep 2021, 7:05 am

Nades wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Why should the masks come off? They help quite a bit, and are only a minor inconvenience.

When vaccinated and masked you are pretty darn safe, no need for shutdowns.

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Nades
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05 Sep 2021, 7:10 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Nades wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Why should the masks come off? They help quite a bit, and are only a minor inconvenience.

When vaccinated and masked you are pretty darn safe, no need for shutdowns.

It appears the vaccine will never be effective or long lasting enough to ever remove masks. It's also expected by medical professionals that social distancing and masks have hampered immunity against flu and they're bracing themselves for a terrible flu year.

Even if masks were effective though, would you want to wear them forever. Never seeing another person's face in public again?

DW_a_mom
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05 Sep 2021, 4:40 pm

Nades wrote:

Even if masks were effective though, would you want to wear them forever. Never seeing another person's face in public again?

If it means I live to see my grand children, yes. If it means my children live to get married and produce those grandchildren, yes.

But it’s a false equation.

We know that in a well spaced outdoor setting masking isn’t needed.

And while vaccination may not be ending the pandemic forever, it is a very effective tool in making the disease easier to manage.

I won’t dispute that we’ve moved into management of the disease rather than elimination of it, but I guess I have a lower tolerance for seeing death all around me than you do.

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Kraichgauer
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05 Sep 2021, 6:59 pm

Nades wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Taking off masks and ignoring restrictions has worked out so well for Florida, Texas, and Mississippi.

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Tim_Tex
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05 Sep 2021, 7:47 pm

We need to consider fines or jail time for those who refuse to get vaxed. If the fear of COVID won’t get their attention, maybe the fear having less money for guns and ammo or being sodomized in a prison shower will (and I know how much righties hate sodomy).

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DW_a_mom
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05 Sep 2021, 8:05 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

Governments don’t and should not have that power.

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Nades
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06 Sep 2021, 4:11 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Nades wrote:

Even if masks were effective though, would you want to wear them forever. Never seeing another person's face in public again?

We've certainly moved on to disease management but the question is how far does it go? It's no good wearing masks to save 10000 people one year from covid only to find out social distancing and mask has caused a sever flu epidemic the following year that kills 30000.

Masks and social distancing are only good at stopping acute and immediate viral threats. The general consensus is that in the long term they appear to be hampering much needed immunity for other more common illnesses and makes those more likely to get out of control.

Nades
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06 Sep 2021, 4:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Nades wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Taking off masks and ignoring restrictions has worked out so well for Florida, Texas, and Mississippi.

Good on them. They might not have to deal with compromised immune systems in the near future.

An assumption of being protected from disease by hiding from them is a bit of a fallacy.

DW_a_mom
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06 Sep 2021, 4:50 am

Nades wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Nades wrote:

Even if masks were effective though, would you want to wear them forever. Never seeing another person's face in public again?

I don’t think the general consensus says what you think it does at all. I trust the epidemiologists that I follow (personal contacts, not political) and they say mask up indoors.

The flu, if you may recall, spreads mostly through contact with large droplets that have fallen onto surfaces. Remember all that hand washing and extreme surface wiping we started this epidemic with? That was when they thought COVID-19 spread more like the flu. Compare what you heard then, and what you hear now. Masks are not the primary mechanism for mitigating the spread of the flu. Clean surfaces are.

Also, you are completely forgetting to factor in the roughly 30% of COVID-19 survivors who are already known to have long term negative health effects.

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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 06 Sep 2021, 5:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

DW_a_mom
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06 Sep 2021, 4:57 am

Nades wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Nades wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Taking off masks and ignoring restrictions has worked out so well for Florida, Texas, and Mississippi.

Good on them. They might not have to deal with compromised immune systems in the near future.

An assumption of being protected from disease by hiding from them is a bit of a fallacy.

Hm, are you aware of the severe shortages of hospital beds in those states? The high fatality rates? Let’s see, potentially compromised immune system (minority theory, not proven) v. death? Yeah, I pick the former.

I know the idea that we can outrun or outsmart a pandemic is a likely a fallacy. But dam if I’m going to give up and let a fickle disease run it’s course and choose my fate without putting up a good fight. I find it so strange that the same people who talk big about self reliance and toughness would rather believe lies and fight with health officials than fight for them and their families to be among those who make it out of this both alive and without suffering the long term debilitating effects that often follow a run with COVID-19. I don’t run away from fights, I win them.

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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 06 Sep 2021, 5:05 am, edited 3 times in total.

Nades
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06 Sep 2021, 4:58 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Nades wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Nades wrote:

Even if masks were effective though, would you want to wear them forever. Never seeing another person's face in public again?

It's a well known fact that failure to be exposed to disease makes that particular disease more dangerous and contagious the longer it lurks in the background. If I made such a post stating "a population hiding from disease results in compromised immune systems" in 2018 everyone here would have been "well.....duhhh". How has well understood science suddenly became less relevant since covid?

Medical professionals are worried about increased flu deaths. It's basic well understood science.

DW_a_mom
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06 Sep 2021, 5:09 am

Nades wrote:

Medical professionals are worried about increased flu deaths. It's basic well understood science.

Yes, but you are failing to put that risk properly on the scale against simple COVID-19 protective measures like masks. I trust the epidemiologists I have spent hours listening to and know what they recommend: start living but wear masks indoors when in public places.

Also, you missed my edit (my fault, sorry) where I added reference to the lingering effects of COVID.

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Nades
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06 Sep 2021, 5:29 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Nades wrote:

Medical professionals are worried about increased flu deaths. It's basic well understood science.

But epidemiologists also warn of the danger of using masks and social distancing for prolonged periods of time causing weakened immune responses to other illnesses.

Indoor public places is where a lot of immunity comes from. There is a happy middle ground and wearing masks forever and social distancing forever will never be in that middle ground.

DW_a_mom
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06 Sep 2021, 6:38 am

Nades wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Nades wrote:

Medical professionals are worried about increased flu deaths. It's basic well understood science.

You can follow the advice of your favorite epidemiologist, and I will follow the advice of mine. While nothing about handling a novel new virus can be said with certainty, I trust my source’s judgement. I shared what I’ve learned from my source, and that is all I can do. I am not the epidemiologist.

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Kraichgauer
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06 Sep 2021, 2:21 pm

Nades wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Nades wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Taking off masks and ignoring restrictions has worked out so well for Florida, Texas, and Mississippi.

Good on them. They might not have to deal with compromised immune systems in the near future.

An assumption of being protected from disease by hiding from them is a bit of a fallacy.

They're not refusing to wear masks for the reason you give, but due to sheer ignorance, political fanaticism, and insane conspiracy theories.

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