funeralxempire
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Age: 41
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Posts: 34,577
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23 Jun 2023, 6:10 pm
23 Jun 2023, 8:19 pm
goldfish21 wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
I also saw a news item say the sub maker used hardware store parts like washers - don't know how true that is.
It's true. There's a video tour of the sub I watched that's like 5 minutes long and they point out all the off the shelf parts they used for various things - but - that's fine. None of those parts are critical for safey.. so what if there's a handle on the ceiling that came from an RV supplier? That sort of thing isn't critical to the hull integrity.. it'd be like complaining about the brand of paint on a wall causing a house to fall down - totally irrelevant and a smart move to save money vs. engineering every last one of your own components. Even the video game controller May have been reliable enough for such a craft - plus they keep a couple spares on board. I'd worry more about the blue tooth potentially failing.. but whatever.
It's the DESIGN of the hull and more specifically the materials specified that were the Most Likely problem, as James Cameron pointed out. Carbon fibre can't take those compressive forces.. that's why every other vessel ever made is titanium. I guess they were hoping to go light weight just so they could get it out there easier w/o such a large transport vessel.
The Titan did make a couple other dives to the Titanic - iirc this was it's 3rd. I guess they figured it was fine if it didn't implode on the first attempt.. but it could have suffered some sort of compressive fatigue fracture or something that didn't present itself until after a couple dives. And somehow I doubt they were hauling it out and xraying it to check after every dive. But maybe even if they did they wouldn't have found anything and would have kept rolling the dice until it 'ploded; as it did.
Although, never know, maybe it wasn't even the hull structure that s**t the bed and got breached.. apparently the viewing port was only certified for a fraction of the depth they went to.. but OceanGate didn't care because they didn't plan on ever getting their craft inspected and certified by anyone, anyways. I'm not 100% sure on the physics.. but if the hull was fine (improbable) and the window broke (maaaaybe) would the whole thing instantly implode just the same as a hull fracture? I don't see a scenario where water would slowly trickle in at 6,000lbs per square inch.. I guess maybe the only way to ever know is if they find the viewing port completely intact.. but even then, the window could be fine but the seal right around it could have let go.
In any event, it seems it wasn't worth the weight & cost savings using carbon fibre instead of titanium.
Oh, and I read that James Cameron had his sub design scrutinized and approved by Some sort of regulatory body, and then then final product was inspected and approved as well. So it seems there is some sort of regulatory body and checks and balances for this industry.. which is part of why they've had such a great safety track record up until the carbon fibre Titan.
That was a difficult read, it conjured up all sorts of intrusive images
23 Jun 2023, 8:40 pm
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,279
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
23 Jun 2023, 9:22 pm
Recidivist wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
I also saw a news item say the sub maker used hardware store parts like washers - don't know how true that is.
It's true. There's a video tour of the sub I watched that's like 5 minutes long and they point out all the off the shelf parts they used for various things - but - that's fine. None of those parts are critical for safey.. so what if there's a handle on the ceiling that came from an RV supplier? That sort of thing isn't critical to the hull integrity.. it'd be like complaining about the brand of paint on a wall causing a house to fall down - totally irrelevant and a smart move to save money vs. engineering every last one of your own components. Even the video game controller May have been reliable enough for such a craft - plus they keep a couple spares on board. I'd worry more about the blue tooth potentially failing.. but whatever.
It's the DESIGN of the hull and more specifically the materials specified that were the Most Likely problem, as James Cameron pointed out. Carbon fibre can't take those compressive forces.. that's why every other vessel ever made is titanium. I guess they were hoping to go light weight just so they could get it out there easier w/o such a large transport vessel.
The Titan did make a couple other dives to the Titanic - iirc this was it's 3rd. I guess they figured it was fine if it didn't implode on the first attempt.. but it could have suffered some sort of compressive fatigue fracture or something that didn't present itself until after a couple dives. And somehow I doubt they were hauling it out and xraying it to check after every dive. But maybe even if they did they wouldn't have found anything and would have kept rolling the dice until it 'ploded; as it did.
Although, never know, maybe it wasn't even the hull structure that s**t the bed and got breached.. apparently the viewing port was only certified for a fraction of the depth they went to.. but OceanGate didn't care because they didn't plan on ever getting their craft inspected and certified by anyone, anyways. I'm not 100% sure on the physics.. but if the hull was fine (improbable) and the window broke (maaaaybe) would the whole thing instantly implode just the same as a hull fracture? I don't see a scenario where water would slowly trickle in at 6,000lbs per square inch.. I guess maybe the only way to ever know is if they find the viewing port completely intact.. but even then, the window could be fine but the seal right around it could have let go.
In any event, it seems it wasn't worth the weight & cost savings using carbon fibre instead of titanium.
Oh, and I read that James Cameron had his sub design scrutinized and approved by Some sort of regulatory body, and then then final product was inspected and approved as well. So it seems there is some sort of regulatory body and checks and balances for this industry.. which is part of why they've had such a great safety track record up until the carbon fibre Titan.
That was a difficult read, it conjured up all sorts of intrusive images
This is what I found about the window:
Passengers can also look out directly from the Titan's viewport, a pressure-proof window with an internal diameter of 12.3 inches (31.2 centimeters), making it the largest viewport of any deep-diving crewed submersible, according to OceanGate. The viewpoint's manufacturer only certified it as safe at depths of 4,265 feet (1,300 meters). The Titanic wreck sits about 12,500 feet (3,800 m) below the surface.
https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/rivers-oceans/missing-titanic-submersible-what-do-we-know-about-oceangates-titan-sub-disappearance#:~:text=Passengers%20can%20also%20look%20out%20directly%20from%20the,safe%20at%20depths%20of%204%2C265%20feet%20%281%2C300%20meters%29.
23 Jun 2023, 10:03 pm
goldfish21
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Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
23 Jun 2023, 11:05 pm
naturalplastic wrote:
So....the vehicle was used...on a regular basis several times... to a depth three times deeper than the window is supposed to be able to withstand?
Sounds like negligence to me.
Sounds like negligence to me.
Experts say same same for the carbon fibre hull. There's a reason every other one in existence is titanium.. and that reason is -> staying alive. But buddy never had anything inspected or approved as I guess there's no legal Requirement to for an "experimental," vessel.
Like some other dude said in some interview.. it was basically like flying in an untested plane design.
_________________
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
24 Jun 2023, 7:37 am
Yes...the 19 year old was the real tragedy, poor kid. As Isabella said, there is NO WAY I'd force/persuade my child to do something dangerous.
However, what upsets me more is the fact that those 700 refugees died in the Greek boat that sunk, and the media didn't give a sh|t. They were people too, mostly women and children drowning below decks.
Why are billionaires more important than poor people? What's happening to the human race where we value some people over others? Grrrr. 
goldfish21
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Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
24 Jun 2023, 7:56 am
KitLily wrote:
Yes...the 19 year old was the real tragedy, poor kid. As Isabella said, there is NO WAY I'd force/persuade my child to do something dangerous.
However, what upsets me more is the fact that those 700 refugees died in the Greek boat that sunk, and the media didn't give a sh|t. They were people too, mostly women and children drowning below decks.
Why are billionaires more important than poor people? What's happening to the human race where we value some people over others? Grrrr.
However, what upsets me more is the fact that those 700 refugees died in the Greek boat that sunk, and the media didn't give a sh|t. They were people too, mostly women and children drowning below decks.
Why are billionaires more important than poor people? What's happening to the human race where we value some people over others? Grrrr.
I never even heard about that. Now the boat sinking in the Mediterranean cartoon vs. the submarine search in the Atlantic makes sense.
Even before the creation of our modern currency and Millionaires and Billionaires some people have been valued more than others for a variety of reasons. That's not a new concept to humans. Most societies have done it for ages and ages.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.24 Jun 2023, 8:17 am
24 Jun 2023, 9:03 am
24 Jun 2023, 9:06 am
KitLily wrote:
Yes...the 19 year old was the real tragedy, poor kid. As Isabella said, there is NO WAY I'd force/persuade my child to do something dangerous.
However, what upsets me more is the fact that those 700 refugees died in the Greek boat that sunk, and the media didn't give a sh|t. They were people too, mostly women and children drowning below decks.
Why are billionaires more important than poor people? What's happening to the human race where we value some people over others? Grrrr.
However, what upsets me more is the fact that those 700 refugees died in the Greek boat that sunk, and the media didn't give a sh|t. They were people too, mostly women and children drowning below decks.
Why are billionaires more important than poor people? What's happening to the human race where we value some people over others? Grrrr.
If you are talking about British media then unfortunately Brits dying is more important than other nationalities to them.
24 Jun 2023, 9:13 am
Sweetleaf wrote:
This is what I found about the window:
Passengers can also look out directly from the Titan's viewport, a pressure-proof window with an internal diameter of 12.3 inches (31.2 centimeters), making it the largest viewport of any deep-diving crewed submersible, according to OceanGate. The viewpoint's manufacturer only certified it as safe at depths of 4,265 feet (1,300 meters). The Titanic wreck sits about 12,500 feet (3,800 m) below the surface.
https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/rivers-oceans/missing-titanic-submersible-what-do-we-know-about-oceangates-titan-sub-disappearance#:~:text=Passengers%20can%20also%20look%20out%20directly%20from%20the,safe%20at%20depths%20of%204%2C265%20feet%20%281%2C300%20meters%29.
Speechless
24 Jun 2023, 12:08 pm
24 Jun 2023, 12:09 pm
Recidivist wrote:
KitLily wrote:
Yes...the 19 year old was the real tragedy, poor kid. As Isabella said, there is NO WAY I'd force/persuade my child to do something dangerous.
However, what upsets me more is the fact that those 700 refugees died in the Greek boat that sunk, and the media didn't give a sh|t. They were people too, mostly women and children drowning below decks.
Why are billionaires more important than poor people? What's happening to the human race where we value some people over others? Grrrr.
However, what upsets me more is the fact that those 700 refugees died in the Greek boat that sunk, and the media didn't give a sh|t. They were people too, mostly women and children drowning below decks.
Why are billionaires more important than poor people? What's happening to the human race where we value some people over others? Grrrr.
If you are talking about British media then unfortunately Brits dying is more important than other nationalities to them.
It's all over Canadian news because apparently the waters belonged to Canada, the Dawoods are in Canada for the summer, and they departed from Canada.
24 Jun 2023, 12:20 pm
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
KitLily wrote:
Yes...the 19 year old was the real tragedy, poor kid. As Isabella said, there is NO WAY I'd force/persuade my child to do something dangerous.
However, what upsets me more is the fact that those 700 refugees died in the Greek boat that sunk, and the media didn't give a sh|t. They were people too, mostly women and children drowning below decks.
Why are billionaires more important than poor people? What's happening to the human race where we value some people over others? Grrrr.
However, what upsets me more is the fact that those 700 refugees died in the Greek boat that sunk, and the media didn't give a sh|t. They were people too, mostly women and children drowning below decks.
Why are billionaires more important than poor people? What's happening to the human race where we value some people over others? Grrrr.
If you are talking about British media then unfortunately Brits dying is more important than other nationalities to them.
It's all over Canadian news because apparently the waters belonged to Canada, the Dawoods are in Canada for the summer, and they departed from Canada.
I always found it weird, but maybe it's just me, when a nation's media reports about a disaster because one of the people involved was from that nation.
We need an angle, find an angle, wasn't that dude on Titan friends with (not my king) Charles and Rishi - print it.
goldfish21
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Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
24 Jun 2023, 4:03 pm
Implosion animation:
https://www.tiktok.com/@starfieldstudio ... 7162998059
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
