Cerebral Palsy + DNR order = one pissed off Strapples

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KristaMeth
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15 Dec 2007, 3:39 pm

doordoctor wrote:

my point of view is since CP will not kill a person and since she is a living being that may be having to use a head array to power a wheelchair if she did use a poewrchair, i dont think its right to refuse emergancy rescue procedures on a child. disabled or not

i think since people with cp live a long life and at 2nd grade (usually about 7 to 9 years old) its too early to tell about her outcome on life. i really think its both risky and DANGERUS to have her DNR order pinned to the back of her wheelchair, i mean since the patient's name and ssn are on there, anyone can steal that child's identity.

if this was because of some religion such as jehovahs witnesses, i think its time for the safety and well bing of this child to convert to a more free religion.

i really hate when adults and people assume what people can or cannot do when the assumed about hasnt had a chance to try soemthing or reach that point in time,

sehs human, has a mind, people with severe cp THINK and i really find it sad that they are treated like a broken toaster (tossed or not treated or fixed)

i voted no id not put a dnr on this cute looking child who may have a really good life ahaid of now

Jehovah's Witnesses only issue with life saving measures are blood transfusions. This does not include dialysis or other things of the sort. CPR, feeding tubes, oxygen, whatever.

Never ceases to amaze me... the misconceptions people have about JW's.

Yeah, they're not allowed to dance either. Or play cards.

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Rjaye
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15 Dec 2007, 6:15 pm

Strapples wrote:

*laughing hysterically*

respond to medical condition.... recover... yeah... right!! ! check my website please, i have a neurological disease that is very rapidly progressive...

at some point my case is going to look exactly like this... if not worse. but i do NOT want a DNR strapped to the back of my wheelchair for ANY reason... i find that a DNR is not a useful thing when someone is this young. you dont know what the future holds for this case...

*points to signature*

Well, then, you proved my point. You're projecting. And you're inconsistent.

Unfortunately, because you haven't had much experience in life at your age, you're painting people as uncaring because you haven't the experience to judge this situation. Of course, you'll disagree, because you're a teenager and need a chill pill. You're old enough to choose for yourself. And guess what, sweetie...

I know far better than you know. I worked in hospitals for over a decade, then went on to advocate for crip rights, and worked for a while in hospice care settings, I cared for both dying infants and adults.

I've seen far more than people should see from all parts of society. Oh, yeah, I used to work the morgue. So while you may have a unique view, your only experience is YOU. No-one else. Your experience does not represent anyone else's.

Bless your heart anyway. That little lack of theory of mind will resolve the older you get. So will being a teenager.

Metta, Rjaye

catlover02
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15 Dec 2007, 6:37 pm

I am really against having a DNR order put on a child. That is so wrong. Everyone deserves medical care, if they're disabled or not. People should try putting their self in the child's shoes and see how it would feel if they had a DNR on them. Dawn

catlover02
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15 Dec 2007, 6:58 pm

There should be a law against putting a DNR order on any child. It is so wrong to put a DNR order on any child. Dawn

YowlingCat
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15 Dec 2007, 7:23 pm

I get the feeling that DNR is misunderstood. It is not withholding all treatment at all, only CPR, and even that, under specific medical conditions:

http://depts.washington.edu/bioethx/topics/dnr.html

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/114/111425.htm

It does vary from state to state in some details, but it is not taken lightly by the medical staff.

Strapples
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16 Dec 2007, 8:57 am

catlover02 wrote:

There should be a law against putting a DNR order on any child. It is so wrong to put a DNR order on any child. Dawn

i strongly agree with you...

i personally think that no one in the world should have the right to place a DNR on a child under 16 years of age, its that simple...

if she can be given proper medical care in the event of a crisis she could possibly have a huge future ahead of her... she would not be able to benefit from a DNR in any way... i could accept a conditional DNR like i have if i am in a coma for more than 6 months to pull the plug after proper consideration on the coma recoverability scale is evaluated.

if it werent illegal i would go burn down the parents house and do a forced adoption...

she looks like such a cute cuddly huggy girl...

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Strapples
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16 Dec 2007, 9:00 am

YowlingCat wrote:

there are a few things unacceptable about this DNR.

1. CPR usually does work in aiding recovery from "most" medical emergencies.
2. the use of a defibbrilator does not cause damage but can save life
3. the use of suctioning to clear mucus and other airway obstructions is not allowed and suctioning when used correctly cannot harm
4. short term acute care intubation can be very beneficial to treatment

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mmaestro
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16 Dec 2007, 11:14 am

Strapples wrote:

3. the use of suctioning to clear mucus and other airway obstructions is not allowed and suctioning when used correctly cannot harm

Not true. From the article I cited:

Quote:

School nurses will be allowed to use suction to ease Katie's breathing and give her oxygen with a mask. The child can be positioned in a way that makes it easier to breathe.

I agree with Rjaye. I think you're projecting. Your situation /= Katie's situation. What is best for you may not be best for her.

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Strapples
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16 Dec 2007, 11:17 am

mmaestro wrote:

Strapples wrote:

3. the use of suctioning to clear mucus and other airway obstructions is not allowed and suctioning when used correctly cannot harm

Not true. From the article I cited:

Quote:

School nurses will be allowed to use suction to ease Katie's breathing and give her oxygen with a mask. The child can be positioned in a way that makes it easier to breathe.

I agree with Rjaye. I think you're projecting. Your situation /= Katie's situation. What is best for you may not be best for her.

well... that kind of makes me feel a little easier about it...

but i still dont like the idea of having any type of DNR on a child...

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lucy1
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16 Dec 2007, 2:07 pm

I believe a DNR order on this wee girl is wrong, the decision to place such an order should be made as a team decision involving both health professionals and family.

Strapples
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16 Dec 2007, 2:08 pm

lucy1 wrote:

I believe a DNR order on this wee girl is wrong, the decision to place such an order should be made as a team decision involving both health professionals and family.

it was a team decision between family and doctor... but the problem is she was never asked if she would want her life to end that abruptly... i bet if they asked her she would be saying "forget it... dont even dare sign the yellow form..."

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lucy1
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16 Dec 2007, 4:11 pm

If she has the cognizance to decide for herself - she should have the right of autonomy, the choice should be hers, no one elses.

there are occasions when parents do need to decide when to stop life resuscitating interventions - so - in my mind it is not a yes and no answer - for this reason I can't vote in your poll.

Strapples
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16 Dec 2007, 7:21 pm

lucy1 wrote:

i respect your abstainence from the voting procedures...

it is unknown if she has severe cognitive problems, although just knowing from the news record it does not seem like that due to the fact that cerebral palsy its self does not cause cognitive problems...

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Gamester
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19 Dec 2007, 2:07 am

Strapples wrote:

lucy1 wrote:

The one thing I actually wanted to know, which the article didn't seem to state, if it did and I didn't remember, was how hard hitting the cerebal palsy plus other issues was.

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Strapples
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19 Dec 2007, 2:13 am

Gamester wrote:

Strapples wrote:

lucy1 wrote:

The one thing I actually wanted to know, which the article didn't seem to state, if it did and I didn't remember, was how hard hitting the cerebal palsy plus other issues was.

however my decision still stands as no DNR at this point... with what limited data we have there does not appear to be any terminal sub condition along with the cerebral palsy... cerebral palsy its self is not a terminal condition although we do not know if she has some sort of acquired sub disorder along with the cerebral palsy... even then i wouldnt have this kind of DNR on her since it prevents basic medical intervention (CPR/Defibbrilator) i could see a DNR like the kind i have on myself that if my CRS (coma recovery scale) score is very low and i am in a coma for more than 6 months to do a full analysis and if results come that it is not likely i will come out of the coma to pull the plug... my DNR is a more sensible one...

i have this girl in my google news alerts so if any more news comes in i will make sure to post an alert here...

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AussieBoy
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25 Dec 2007, 12:53 am

YES

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