Yemen Confronts Plight of Child Brides

Post Reply New Topic

Islam was accepted by many cultures, because it showed it's self to be a better system.

It is not everything. The Amazight, Berbers, of North Africa have kept many of their pre Islamic customs, laws, regarding business and inheritance, marriage, They speak their language, Tamazight, but they do consider themselves Islamic.

Islam spread Arabic, and it was a great thing for trade, for knowledge, books, and wisdom.

Before the Prophet, his own people dealt with the surplus female birth rate by killing them. They were given or sold into marriage, they had no rights at all, not a right to life, much less inheritance, divorce, and to be supported after divorce. They were property, as the English called them, Chattel. Owned in the same way as a cow or camel.

The Prophet changed that. He was from a small trade town, a country boy. The big city folks, with harbors, ships, trade, cities, were a branch of the people the Greeks called Phoenician, and the Hebrew Phillistins. They were followers of Baal. Same people, we know it as Yemen.

Their practice was to sacrifice all first born children, and extra girls.

Abraham who was to kill his first born son, offered up a goat instead. It was the way things were.

Within his lifetime The Prophet not only changed the custom of the Arabs, who changed from killing women to understanding their rights, but Yemen upon hearing of it, converted to Islam. They were rich and powerful, and in this world 300 years after the fall of Rome, people were seeking a better way.

The Prophet converted them with the truth of his words. Women have rights, children have rights, the old, poor, sick, everyone, even slaves, even enemies.

He also said we should all give 3% of our income to the poor. Not just as charity, but as you can best do to end poverty, a begger can become a street vender, raise up all of the people around you, study, learn, and teach, if you want to live in a better world, for Allah has not put you in poverty and ignorance, that is the work of men. Only men can change it, by respecting themselves, each other, and everyone else that Allah has put here.

His words changed the world.

He started the first Social Security System, the next was in Germany in 1880 and the US in 1933.

Islam did not eradicate the cultures where it spead, many customs were continued, other languages than Arabic, it respected local law, custom, and only taught a better way for all to live.

It had a strong influance on those who were good of heart, and not much at all on those who were evil by nature.

The Prophet comes at a low point in human history. Rome had looted the world and left a wasteland.

Within 300 years, comes the 11th to 13th Centuries that was an age of Science, Mathematics, learning in all fields, published books, established universities, and some great works were written. Ibn Khaldun was the father of Scientific history, Sociaology, Economics, and his work, and Arabic numerals and mathematics coming into Europe in 1300 spread the learning, and brought forth the greatest age of Europe.

Being humans Christians warred with Christians, Islamic people with Islamic people, and with each other. The Prophet would not have approved. That aside, we can thank him for our current technological era, while blaming the evil upon men.

From their writing we know the Greeks, Spartans, Romans, had sex with children. Then it seems to go out of fashion, for I can find no record of it till after WWII, in the writngs of Kinsey, Masters and Johnson. There is some mention of parks where children gathered in England, 1890's to make themselves available, but it was more of a tour guide thing, no one was condeming the practice.

Prostitution was legal in most places a hundred years ago, They advertised in the paper. One London house said they had the youngest girls in the city, and the thickest doors so no one would hear them scream. A New Orleans house advertised they threw them out at thirteen.

Sigmond Freud said many of his women patients had a fantasy life, they reported their fathers coming into their beds and having sex with them on a regular basis, since he knew their fathers, he said that women have a rich sexual fantasy life, and even as very small girls believe that they want their father to rape them so strongly, they really believe they are telling a true story.

His views are the foundation of Psychiatry.

So as I said, worse things have happened to girls, and they could not find a judge and demand a divorce.

I cannot help but read two sides in this story, as mentioned, it is the parents who are to protect their daughter, they made the wrong choice.

Herodotus wrote about two groups, one would not touch a dead person, they hired special people to move and bury the dead. The other ate their dead. Both said they would do it no other way. From this he gathered that custom is the strongest force affecting people.

I do not mind condeming my own culture when I have the facts.

I can see the intent of this custom, she was to bond and become one with another family, what is reported goes against that custom.

Okay, am I the only one here who face-palmed at the post which said that sex is the husband's right in a marriage, and that a wife is wrong for refusing it? Who had a problem with rape being considered too loaded a word for someone forcing another to have sex against their will (which is indeed the technical definition of rape, if it really needs to be said)? Married or not, a person still has the right to their own body and to make decisions about what to do with it. Forcing one to give up their free will in such matters can and should be described as nothing less serious than rape.

Face-palm all you like; that's your "technical" definition of rape and it has nothing to do with Islam. I know how rape is constructed in America, et al. and I know what purpose it is supposed to serve, but in Islam there are rights and duties that do not match up to your definitions, so I reject them.

Explanation: In Islam, part of marital duty for husband and wife alike is to respond to and satisfy their partner's physical needs. The number of Muslims who know about the woman's right are admittedly and unfortunately few and steps are being taken to educate people. I myself was unsure about this at first, so I had my husband ask for a fatwa. The shaikh confirmed my right .. as much as needed. If a woman molests her husband while he's sleeping or whatever or could figure out how to take him by force against his will (umm, yeah...), it would be undignified, but it would not be "rape". Same for the man. This is a problem of domestic violence, not rape. There's a difference. A woman has to know that going into the marriage because failure to do so is grounds for divorce, for him or her.

There is no point at which someone should have to give up control of their own bodies. That implies an extreme lack of respect for another person, to take that crucial option away from them. In what way can such a marriage be called a loving, functional relationship, where one party does not respect the wishes and privacy of another on that simple, basic level? If I may warp the usual saying a tad, with lovers like that, who needs enemies?

It is the most basic part of the marriage contract; refusal is a breach of contract. Whoever doesn't want to share his body has the right not to marry.

I think that, (to draw a parallel) with very few exceptions, a fetus has the right to live, and that a married person has the right to conjugal relations.

Now, to turn this around a bit, to emphasize the duty aspect is negative. A good Islamic marriage is supposed to be based on a very positive, loving approach, so advice should be first given to spouses, reminding them the benefits of being responsive and willing to please the other. Even if you're not in the mood, just go along and try to get in the mood, which is advice I've also heard on many non-Muslim marriage counseling websites. If the relationship reaches the point where there's talk of forcing, it is probably borderline (or fully) abusive and it would probably be unwise to continue if a better spirit cannot be fostered. Legally speaking, though, and legalese does not take the same approach to issues as marriage counseling, force in the context of marriage cannot be considered "rape".

In the context of the greater discussion, however, where "agreeing" to the marriage contract is only theoretically a completely free decision on one's part (as societal and family forces, as well as just someone's age, could make that decision look much more like coercion under bad and quite plausible circumstances), it could be that the choice of bodily integrity was taken away twice rather than once. This is why in both circumstances there must be the right to choice, a right that exists practically as well as in terms of what "should" be. Having to tolerate something done to you for another's sake when they could feasibly "entertain" themselves in those respects is entirely unnecessary, and it is callous to demand that of someone.

I totally agree that Nujood was probably violated twice, not just once, as you say, but again, that has nothing to do with her age. The same thing can and does happen to women at 25. In fact, the pressure may be more intense even for those who might have had a choice at an earlier age because parents go into panic mode as their daughters age. They don't want to end up with spinsters.

Second point: "entertaining" oneself is not an option from an Islamic perspective. Masturbation is prohibited by the agreement of the majority of scholars (based on evidence from the sources of the religion) and permitted as an exemption in restricted cases by a minority.

To get to the heart of the matter, one has to understand that the main value here is chastity, which has ceased to be a pervasive value in America et al., hence the difficulty in understanding.

I failed to touch on one other important point brought out: the "should be" status of all of this.

The Islamic world is currently in a sorry state indeed; I would argue, however, that it is due to a failure to comply with Islam, not because of Islam.

Reform is needed the world over.

If marriage is more about familial or religious duty than it is about personal attraction, isn't already a mistake?

slowmutant, this is for you (from a very pro christian site)

http://www.carm.org/devotions/marriage.htm

It's not all about familial and religious duty, it is primarily about personal attraction and the right to have a fulfilling emotional, sexual, spiritual companionship with another person.

{And among His Signs is this, that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect.}
[Surat al-Rum 30:21]

Muslim reported this hadith from Abu Hurairah (raa), "The Prophet (saws) asked a man who had married a woman, 'Have you looked at her?' He replied, 'No.' He said, 'Go and look at her.'"

He married based on what he knew of the woman's reputation or whatever, but the Prophet (saws) insisted that he should at least look at her before completing the marriage because attraction is essential to a healthy marriage.