Board index › General Discussion › News and Current Events

F.B.I. Raids Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate

Page 44 of 67 [ 1069 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47 ... 67  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

05 Sep 2022, 5:12 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Well like millions of others I think it was primarily a political attempt to end a presidency, and now a primarily political attempt to stop a presidency. Which is why Trump has never even come close to being indicted for any of it.


This isn't your ordinary political attempt.

Simple question: do you believe in our constitution and wish to see the great American democratic experiment continue, or would you be happy to follow the example of Turkey, where personal freedoms and the ability of ordinary citizens to actually choose their government has eroded?

If you answer the former, you should be paying attention to the red flags surrounding Trump. I don't give fig if he goes to jail. I give a fig about the America we grew up believing in.

If you answer the later, well, carry on.

I understand if you think my concern is exaggerated. And maybe it is. But I'd rather be overly concerned now than overly sorry later. There are a lot of very credible people raising the alarms on this.

Red flags should not be ignored. If it takes a thousand investigations to figure out whether or not the threat is real, I'm on board.

And I don't give a fig if Trump goes to jail, as long as he is never president again. The Stephen Miller memo outlining the goals for a second term is not what you want to happen, I'd be willing to place a bet on it.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

05 Sep 2022, 5:20 am

cyberdad wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
You seem to have an inability to perceive trump's threat to American democracy.


Have you already forgotten that I don't care?


Yes you do care, otherwise why go to all this effort? unless you are just trolling?


I really shouldn't speak for Dox, but here goes anyway. Because I think you'd know the answer if you were actually paying attention. Dox, you can tell me if I'm all wet, but I think I have actually been paying attention.

Dox has indicated that he is willing to prioritize giving a black eye to liberals over any risk Trump imposes. So, yes, he doesn't care. It isn't what is driving him.

As for participating in this discussion, I'd venture it's just entertainment.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


Matrix Glitch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2021
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,741
Location: US

05 Sep 2022, 5:47 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
The buzz all over the internet and media was that Trump was going down for collusion. And his cronies were going down for collusion too. When it started becoming clear that wasn't going to happen, the backpedling and reinventing started. And indictments for things like lying to the FBI were made in lieu of indictments for collusion. That's just they way it was, no matter how much it gets dressed up.


Buzz is not reality. Most people didn't understand what the investigation was allowed to actually do. I'm not back pedaling. I always said the investigation was important because we needed to know if a foreign government had, in fact, interfered. Well, in that measure, we learned exactly what I thought we needed to learn. I never expected Trump to actually go down, especially given the limitations of the investigation. I can't stop media and a segment of liberals from going overboard anymore than I can stop the cult MAGAs or Tucker Carlson.
IMHO, we all have to stop letting exaggerated media and energetic politicians color our perceptions of the political opposition.


This is something that needs to be established. This is not about you. The backpedling I'm talking about involves politicians, committees, mainstream media etc... not you. A lot of my thoughts about this were established long before I knew of your existence. I rarely have you in mind personally when discussing these wide ranging matters involving many people who are in the news. So please stop taking so much of what I say personally.


I'm the one who called you out for saying the investigation went "nowhere." And you've given me a lot of rhetoric for why you see it as you do. But in the interest of accuracy, you were wrong to make that statement. Just apply the plain, ordinary meaning of words, and forget the fluff and buzz; my point stands.

There's during the fact and after the fact. What was being presented and toated during the fact, was replaced with different rhetoric after the fact. During the fact it was about finding Trump's presidency invalid due to Trump colluding with Putin to gain a victory through fraud. Along those lines it hit a dead end went nowhere. As far as a foreign power interfering with the election, that happens all the time. The US itself has interfered in several elections. It's not a particularly groundbreaking discovery. That's my take on it anyways



Last edited by Matrix Glitch on 05 Sep 2022, 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cornflake
Administrator
Administrator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 73,342
Location: Over there

05 Sep 2022, 6:04 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Please keep images to the "PPR GIFs, cartoons, jokes, funny pictures, etc." thread.

While a picture is worth a thousand words it can still be an intrusion into a text-based conversation.

Thanks.


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

05 Sep 2022, 6:19 am

It is in the BEST INTERESTS of US existence as a credible nation to stop the Trump Juggernaut.

Why is it that some people feel a blind love for Trump? A person who will throw you under the bus and dispose of you like garbage once your usefulness to him is used up.

Why the need to defend him against all logic? What has he given YOU?



DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

05 Sep 2022, 6:21 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
The buzz all over the internet and media was that Trump was going down for collusion. And his cronies were going down for collusion too. When it started becoming clear that wasn't going to happen, the backpedling and reinventing started. And indictments for things like lying to the FBI were made in lieu of indictments for collusion. That's just they way it was, no matter how much it gets dressed up.


Buzz is not reality. Most people didn't understand what the investigation was allowed to actually do. I'm not back pedaling. I always said the investigation was important because we needed to know if a foreign government had, in fact, interfered. Well, in that measure, we learned exactly what I thought we needed to learn. I never expected Trump to actually go down, especially given the limitations of the investigation. I can't stop media and a segment of liberals from going overboard anymore than I can stop the cult MAGAs or Tucker Carlson.
IMHO, we all have to stop letting exaggerated media and energetic politicians color our perceptions of the political opposition.


This is something that needs to be established. This is not about you. The backpedling I'm talking about involves politicians, committees, mainstream media etc... not you. A lot of my thoughts about this were established long before I knew of your existence. I rarely have you in mind personally when discussing these wide ranging matters involving many people who are in the news. So please stop taking so much of what I say personally.


I'm the one who called you out for saying the investigation went "nowhere." And you've given me a lot of rhetoric for why you see it as you do. But in the interest of accuracy, you were wrong to make that statement. Just apply the plain, ordinary meaning of words, and forget the fluff and buzz; my point stands.

There's during the fact and after the fact. What was being presented and toated during the fact, was replaced with different rhetoric after the fact. During the fact it was about finding Trump's presidency invalid due to Trump colluding with Putin to gain a victory through fraud. Along those lines it hit a dead end went nowhere. As far as a foreign power interfering with the election, that happens all the time. The US itself has interfered in several elections. It's not a particularly groundbreaking discovery. That's my take on it anyways


The point to the investigation never changed. The purpose was clearly stated, and it was not about "getting Trump." Shoot, the scope was specifically limited to NOT get Trump. The investigation had to authorized by a Republican congress and Justice Department, if you recall. There was ALWAYS a discrepancy between what the Democrats wanted, and what actually happened.

Maybe read the original authorizing document?

We're going around in circles, practically speaking totally different languages. But we're both stubborn as heck, aren't we?


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

05 Sep 2022, 6:35 am

Ernst Rohm was entirely faithful to Hitler. He got killed for it when his usefulness to Hitler was used up.

(Not equating Trump with Hitler, just pointing out another person who disposed of faithful people when their usefulness was used up).



Matrix Glitch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2021
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,741
Location: US

05 Sep 2022, 8:27 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
The point to the investigation never changed. The purpose was clearly stated, and it was not about "getting Trump." Shoot, the scope was specifically limited to NOT get Trump. The investigation had to authorized by a Republican congress and Justice Department, if you recall. There was ALWAYS a discrepancy between what the Democrats wanted, and what actually happened.

Maybe read the original authorizing document?

We're going around in circles, practically speaking totally different languages. But we're both stubborn as heck, aren't we?

I don't remember reading the original authorizing document. I mainly remember news coverage and internet talk. I did read some concluding document that I wasn't impressed with. The main theme as far as news and internet jabber went, form the beginning was Trump stole the election with the help of Russia. And I constantly heard how he was on the brink of going to prison. How terrified he was. And seeing all the Trump in orange jumpsuit and behind bars memes and politcal cartoons, and it all seemed like complete nonsense to me.

And this latest; the Jan 6th hearings and investigations, now coupled with the "nuclear documents" investigations and hearings, just seems like more of the same as I described above.

Now while I could spend a lot of time watching hearings and reading reports and all that, it's still a wait and see situation. So since I'm not involved in the process, I'll mainly wait and see. Right now it's wait and see between now and the midterms. I'm really more interested in seeing how all of this, including Biden's speech, and anything that comes up between now and November effects the outcome of the midterms. I think if the Democrats loose a lot of seats in the House and Senate, it will probably be game over for the whole shebang.



Matrix Glitch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2021
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,741
Location: US

05 Sep 2022, 8:36 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Ernst Rohm was entirely faithful to Hitler. He got killed for it when his usefulness to Hitler was used up.

(Not equating Trump with Hitler, just pointing out another person who disposed of faithful people when their usefulness was used up).

Why keep someone on when they're no longer useful?



Matrix Glitch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2021
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,741
Location: US

05 Sep 2022, 8:43 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It is in the BEST INTERESTS of US existence as a credible nation to stop the Trump Juggernaut.

Why is it that some people feel a blind love for Trump? A person who will throw you under the bus and dispose of you like garbage once your usefulness to him is used up.

Why the need to defend him against all logic? What has he given YOU?

I think the juggernaut, or what lead to it, was already in existence. And I think it will continue without Trump. If he is actually incarcerated or prevented from running again some other way, the "cult" would just just go with the next best candidate. Which would probably be Ron DeSantis.

Personally so far I think DeSantis is the better candidate for them anyways. He's younger and has the potential of serving two teams. As opposed to Trump who will be a one term lame duck so to speak.



Last edited by Matrix Glitch on 05 Sep 2022, 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

05 Sep 2022, 8:44 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Ernst Rohm was entirely faithful to Hitler. He got killed for it when his usefulness to Hitler was used up.

(Not equating Trump with Hitler, just pointing out another person who disposed of faithful people when their usefulness was used up).

Why keep someone on when they're no longer useful?

Why ally with someone following this philosophy?


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Matrix Glitch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2021
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,741
Location: US

05 Sep 2022, 8:47 am

magz wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Ernst Rohm was entirely faithful to Hitler. He got killed for it when his usefulness to Hitler was used up.

(Not equating Trump with Hitler, just pointing out another person who disposed of faithful people when their usefulness was used up).

Why keep someone on when they're no longer useful?

Why ally with someone following this philosophy?

I don't see any point in retaining someone if they've become useless. Maybe you can explain it to me.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

05 Sep 2022, 8:54 am

If every person was a Machiavellian, we would have no species. We would end up like the ending of Hamlet, where everyone was killed.

Having basic VALUES is a prerequisite for the survival of our species.

The only reason someone like Attorney General Barr became “useless” to Trump—is because he wasn’t afraid to tell Trump the truth. There was no widespread fraud, and Trump lost the election fair and square.

Barr was a Trump partisan through and through….but he was smart enough to leave the sinking ship.



magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

05 Sep 2022, 9:06 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
magz wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Ernst Rohm was entirely faithful to Hitler. He got killed for it when his usefulness to Hitler was used up.

(Not equating Trump with Hitler, just pointing out another person who disposed of faithful people when their usefulness was used up).

Why keep someone on when they're no longer useful?

Why ally with someone following this philosophy?

I don't see any point in retaining someone if they've become useless. Maybe you can explain it to me.

<stripping from sentiments, morality, etc...>
To score points in your social value. Humans are very social and interested in such things. Keeping allies beyond their "direct" usefullness makes you more attractive to other potential allies.
Politics is all about managing allies.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,333

05 Sep 2022, 9:30 am


YeP It's A Biological Fact As Supported
Even in the Study of Chimps.

Humans Who Cooperate Win.

Leaders Without Empathy FAiL.

A True Alpha Male/Female (Leader) Often Has Highest Levels of EMPATHY;

A True Loser, No Matter What the 'Empathetic Species' is Has Little to No Empathy

As Far As Apes, With or Without Fur Go; And Go Away And Don't Come Back as

LOSERS.

'This' 'Newt Gingrich'
Ideal of the Alpha
Male As A Competer
With Little Empathy and
From Others too is A Myth
That Folks With Little to No
Empathy Continue to Try to 'Resurrect'...

In the Long Run, it Won't Work; SCIENCE/Nature Proves This True, ALREADY;

Evidentiary Resources Available on Demand Yet i Don't Want to Digress too much.

Nah, i Don't Even Have
to Watch and Listen to
The So-Called Human News
to Figure Out How This Human
Story is Gonna END And Begin Again.

A Study of Frigging Chimps Will More Than DO FOR REAL.

IF YA WANT TRUE SUCCESS IN LIFE, IT IS PREFERABLE TO BE ON 'THE WINNING TEAM;'

Meh,
Works for
me at Least..:)


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Matrix Glitch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2021
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,741
Location: US

05 Sep 2022, 10:11 am

magz wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
magz wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Ernst Rohm was entirely faithful to Hitler. He got killed for it when his usefulness to Hitler was used up.

(Not equating Trump with Hitler, just pointing out another person who disposed of faithful people when their usefulness was used up).

Why keep someone on when they're no longer useful?

Why ally with someone following this philosophy?

I don't see any point in retaining someone if they've become useless. Maybe you can explain it to me.

<stripping from sentiments, morality, etc...>
To score points in your social value. Humans are very social and interested in such things. Keeping allies beyond their "direct" usefullness makes you more attractive to other potential allies.
Politics is all about managing allies.

I was thinking staff members. Also for some reason I missed the got killed part. From what I scanned on Wikipedia, Rohm was executed because Hitler believed he was involved in a French government plot to overthrow him.