Top home-school texts dismiss Darwin

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I am homeschooled and all of the science texts were too preachy and felt more like a Sunday school lesson than a lesson in science. I refuse to use a Christian based text for anything anymore. I am a Christian but I want to form my own opionions and not be brainwashed.

Wise thinking.

ruveyn

Indeed. And it's worth saying loudly and often that most Christians (i.e. Catholics by default and most Protestants) are sane enough to accept that the world is what it looks like; the fundies aren't, thank heavens, representative of Christianity.

Are you selling education, or is this a defense of buyers remorse?

There is no economic point in education for ASDs, with a known 12% employment rate, and that spotty, the cost of a four year degree, particularly financed at adjustable rates, Credit Cards and Student Loans, is never likely to recover costs.

They have not become more popular since the post university group has 50% unemployment, and many of those are paying $10,000 a year on loans, which is most of what they would make at $22,000, if they could get a job, and that for twenty or thirty years.

I am self educated, home schooling for adults, and pay as I go.

Free to very low cost education is always worth it, but that is not what the university system sells.

My farm raises computers from the dead, and I do not go back to school when new models come out.

I buy them, the books, and figure it out. I am not paying protection money above income tax for an education, which in my case, would have had nothing to do with computers.

If companies can get away with it, office gender and mail room will call for a degree, and pay like a high school kid. There is not much up in the world, most make $20 something thousand for life.

The cost of an education far exceeds it's value even for the Neurotypical.

That defines a bubble, the cost of an asset exceeds it's value.

While 10% has been the offical unemployment number, that only includes current. Extended beyond 26 weeks adds another number, which brings it to 18%, then those who are now working 33 hours a week, all, so many are getting twenty, and none of that includes the self employed, small business, and University graduates who have never found a job. I think it exceeds the Great Depression with 25% unemployment.

We are only a little over a year in, last time the real damage hit three years after the crash. That is the foreclosure cycle, running through savings, as many are now tapping the 401K.

Stocks are deflated, homes, the dollar, and all that props it up is government debt spending.

If prosperity returned tomorrow, it would still take over ten years to provide jobs. 1.5 million a year created durning booms, 25,000,000 un-under-never-employed.

That decade or two will also see many young people coming up, and for them, the cost of a four year degree would be a waste of money. The money would be better spent on becoming an Electrician, Plumber, Painter, and owning your van and tools. There will always be some work in upkeep.

For the ASD who never had a winning employment record to start with, taking on debt is not a good idea. Not many people need animation or computer code. America has few jobs in those fields, and wages are much lower abroad.

Comparing all things, the five acre homestead and owner built hut is the rich of the future. Your chickens will never fire you.

For money invested, labor, there are much better deals than a formal education. The current, I lost the job, house, savings, everything, is just starting. The bankrupt without Student Loans are the lucky. Many now owe more than their net worth and are employed, They could not sell the house for half of what they owe, they are stuck. Their hours have been cut, benefits reduced, and no raises. Selling the house was their retirement plan.

There will be a selloff of real estate, the FDIC, Fanny and Freddie have been stocking up, a wash sale is coming like the Resolution Trust, In the choice between sending the kid to the university, of buying them an apartment building and sending them to a local trade school, I would go for ownership free and clear, which might cost as much a one year at a university.

It is time to downsize our goals, get realistic, look in the mirror. No one cares about ASDs, when it comes to the sewer being blocked, the bathroom flooding, or water coming through the ceiling. We will never get that treatment at the office.

I got by because no one expects the mechanic to be social, or the computer guy, and now I sell on the web. Even in my Securities and Exchange education, they wanted social. A chipper team player who thinks the market will always go up 10% a year. It was 1998, I thought it was overvalued, and had some structural problems. It was 10,000 then, it is 10,000 now. I only went with a brokerage because you have to be sponsered to take the Series 7 test, I scored highest of my group, they did not want my gloomy self, they are now out of business.

The best of ASD does not fit in the world. Being paid half of what your age and education should get is common here.

Being home schooled does work, most is as natural as learniing to speak, it needs to be guided, but it is a natural thing. The great value is, it never stops. Lifetime education is a new concept, but for ASDs, it is what we do, and it is natural. Growing up in a small business famiy was the best education I ever got. I worked from a young age, it helps. Just social I do have my flaws, but around a service, I do have a way to relate to many strangers.

Being home schooled for a productive debt free life is the best choice. Learning an independant trade or two, owning the means of production, being self supporting, is much better than a vauge and expensive education that leaves you in debt and at the mercy of employers and fellow wage slaves.

Formal education prepares you for the same thing it prepares millions of others for, hundreds of thousands of jobs. It makes you a total dependant on the system. No refunds are given when the world of print caves in, or banks, or software from India, Engineers from China, take all the jobs. It is putting all your eggs in one basket.

All economy is local, and the closer you are to providing a local service, the more you will get some of the action through thick and thin. You now have thousands of potential employers, all short term. You can have several services going, and be less subject to a downturn in one.

The issue for the future will not be higher earnings, to support higher debt, that bubble burst, it will be lower costs. "A penny saved is a penny earned." I own my life, my tools, and in 63 years, no job or business has lasted. I lost two in Katrina, and am starting my third since then. I own them, they do not own me.

The whole pattern of ASDs is lifelong changing special interests, serial students, and it can work. Most of what I do involves machines only recently available. The Internet has changed everything. It works for me.

Education is something we will do with only a little help. My school years did not count for much. The main thing in my life was my self, I am different, it excludes me from a lot of the world. I followed what I was good at, persisted, and learned. We are much more like the people of a few hundred years ago, learn a trade. Make yourself useful.

For most people, there will be no four year degree, it has been about 25%, and that is a vast surplus on the market, and the product lasts a long time. 75% get by without it, and for ASDs, it can go either way. Some are academic, most are not.

We have the added problem of not fitting in socially, which is big in this world.

Home schooled and learning to work a trade is the best hope for many of us.

I agree that the postsecondary education system is somewhere between a scam and useless, for a large number of people.

I also didn't know that you were referring specifically to people with AS. I agree that for many (not all) of those people, a full education with all bells and whistles may not be cost effective.

However, I don't know what country you're from, but even the most rudimentary unskilled jobs should pay far more than $22,000 per year in the US. Edit: You're from Louisiana, aren't you? That partly explains that.

Nobody has a family farm. I don't know what the right answer is for educating people for which an education is not economically beneficial. Leaving them at a 5 year old level is clearly not a good option. I've been talking to another forum member about that 12% figure and what can be done about it, and I don't know the answer to that either. It may be that there's no way to make a person with a severe executive dysfunction employable. I'm not sure how the other 88% are paying their bills and feeding themselves.

The bottom line for me though is that "keeping the ret*d in the attic" is a terrible answer.

We all live in Louisiana. The US median income is about $50,000, half above, half below, but the top few percent make most of the money, so a lot of people work for $10 an hour, $22,000 a year, and many more at Minimum Wage, $12,000 a year.

Where wages are higher, so are costs, so net to the common worker is low.

There is no employment for the bottom of ASDs, HFA hits 12% employed. Temple Grandin wrote about people she knew with Doctorates, that never found work, and stayed home, back during the boom times. She said that Mentors work, and credits her success to having several.

Education alone is not our answer.

I am not sure if Executive Dysfunction is the proper term. I can see it from an outsider view, but those people did get Doctorates, they just do not relate to other people. I don't, but I do relate to machines, so putting something between us works. On the web, I am better than normal. All of my problems come in person or by phone, and they are the one with the problem. Same deal, on the web, everyone is happy.

What they are trying to explain is why they have a sudden strong desire to hate us on sight, or sound, which is not there dealing with the same mind over the internet. Of course, getting this reaction from everyone, other students, teachers, other parents, often our own, does hinder growing up and finding your place in life.

In my own life in grammer school I scored highest in the grade in Reading Comprehension, and in Science, that was just before I was kicked out for being ret*d, as the teacher put it, I will not have that thing in my classroom. Now they are PC, but the feelings are the same.

When I started running a room sized IBM punch card system for a grocer warehouse, my own family attacked because I was ret*d, and should know my place. The final blowup happened when I did enroll in University, Computer Science, for which I got a broken nose and wound up homeless.

I have never learned to become properly ret*d, but I did study Martial Arts, for which I have a talent.

I do fine alone, I am just on the Wrong Planet.

Being as we are such a small minority, no one would ever come to the answer that it is their problem, the hairless ground ape will attack us, with no reason other than we are different, and they feel threatened. It is not just personal, they will go out of their way. I have had three sets of Snap On Mechanics tools stolen, and when I report it to the Police, I get the same reaction, suddenly I am in a lot of trouble.

We get attacked, robbed, then threatened by the Police?

We never got chosen for team sports, but are the first choice of airport security. I used to travel in Armani and Bally, before 9/11 I got mobbed by security with their hand on the guns, and they called for backup. I don't fly anymore.

I think we trigger something in that Primate brain of theirs. It has been too broad, too many situations, for it to all be me. Then there is the part that it is in person, phone, and a total pass by internet. It is not my style or content. It is them.

I have known people like myself that have done well, all in solo persuits. Mechanics, machine shop, camera repair, microscopes, computers, who all tend to ignore the world, and have a small defended life. Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons is one of us, small exclusive market, lives behind the shop, does not have friends, does belong to Mensa.

This is part of the 12% thing, this does not count as employment. 12% have a job, most likely teaching, research, but most of us have no choice but small business, or a service. Business works for us.

So we do need to look at what works best for the HFA, stuck living in the world. Avoid debt, know that education alone will not fix things, and owning your world does.

We have a watershed of values, we do not buy into fads, are consistant and persistant, and Asperger said that special interests do lead to a life's work.

I consider our advantages, Applied Autism. From clothing which is mostly an expensive social fad, to the status items, University Degree, new car, upscale neighborhood, the truth that most of us will not marry, have children, some will.

Warren Buffet lives in the same house, as he grew up, his mother laid out his clothes every day, and then his wife took over. His car is older than mine. All he does is read about stocks. From what I hear he eats the same food over and over. I have never heard he had any education. Maybe high school.

This is the plain and persistant that will get us through.

In isolation we do have a world, what we do works, we just don't mix well with the world.

This is directed at the AS/HFA group. LFA does behave like a five year old, and the only hope is in medical research. At 12% AS/HFA have a limited rate of success in employment, but are able to do things. It is the place we can do the most good. Talent plus focus and persistance is powerful.

While most are trying to intergrate them into the world, from living it, I think that is the worst possible path. We do well from the edge, they do make good customers, and as the world moves to the web our chances improve.

It is what we did for hundreds of years, focus on learning one trade that works, and then labor pays. If your costs are low, even a Minimum Wage rate of income will pile up, and buying a new car for us has all the thrill of setting fire to a pile of twenties.

One of my issues has been a lack of adult outcomes in the study. Other than saying people age out of autism, they do not follow up later life where all of Asperger's Type Cases went on to live normal lives.

For Psychology, playing with the little ret*ds is where the money is, and they make nothing from studies of the same in their thirties, forties, when most do blend into the world, somewhat. At half the pay their age and education would suggest.

My big question is how can a bunch of people who are not normal, be so much alike?

We are like everyone at the funny farm claiming to be Napoleon

Wrong Planet is a very consistant neighborhood, with common insights and values.

Another news item related to home schooling. Of note, these particular individuals are motivated not by religious ideology, but rather by medical reasons.

While I am not yet persuaded that their fears amount to "persecution" within the meaning of the 1951 Convention, I think that it does underscore that Statism in public education catches more than merely the religious fundamentalists, and that our public policy discussion has to be more broadly based than merely the propriety of teaching evolution and creationism.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le1507683/

I'd home schoold to ensure Darwin is recognized!

I find it very interesting that you think that way. You are saying that because someone doesn't have a degree, in your opinion, they shouldn't pass on their knowledge to anyone.
Please expand on your statement of "Only someone with a degree in education should be an educator". I feel it is flawed.

I'm going to be perfectly blunt.

Why the hell should we care if people believe in Evolution or not? I actually would argue that the fact humans exist is a pretty good argument as to why the theory of evolution isn't valid.

1. We have no fur.

2. We have no built in defenses.

3. Our eyes are set up like predators, yet our physical abilities make us more like prey.

4. We are one of the weakest animals for our body size of any species on the planet.

5. We aren't very fast.

6. Our teeth aren't very sharp, etc.

I mean seriously, the fact our ancestors didn't go the way of the Dodo bird is kinda surprising.

That said, what relevence does the theory of evolution have on everyday life?

Teaching that the theory of evolution is wrong, does not mean they are endorsing racism, that does not mean that they are endorsing fundamentalism. Heck one could be a doctor, and a damned good one and still not believe in evolution.

I kinda find this entire topic to be complete idiocy.

I knew some people who were homeschooled, and they had the same problem. Most homeschooling is by parents who are extremely religious and want to exclude themselves from society.

If people want to deny reality then fine. They will be severely limited in their understanding of this world. They ignore 2000+ years of progress in our understanding for the sake of following some ancient, patriarchal religion.

It reminds me of this one ret*d in class who said that gravity didn't exist. It was Satan's lie. I told her to stand on her desk and jump to prove that gravity didn't exist. She wouldn't.

And on the flipside, I've seen people that have gone through public school pretty much idolize a Domestic Terrorist.

But some people do have fur, good sir. They are left-over genes of our ancient, primate ancestors that are occasionally switched on. It is known as Wolfman's syndrome.



And our intelligence, ability to build/use tools, and a strong social mentality was enough to ensure our survival despite being physically weak. Strength is not everything. And there is strength in numbers.

If you want to be a doctor, you better understand and be able to apply evolutionary concepts. Or else you won't be able to protect patients from bacteria which evolved past current antibiotic treatments.

I do agree with you that we shouldn't care if people choose to not recognize and understand the world around them.

The topic itself isn't idiotic. Not all homeschoolers want to learn creationism, and we need more evolutionary books. But people who have knowledge of the world trying to force people who are willingly ignorant to understand is idiotic.

The concept that species can change does not mean that species can suddenly become new species.

A doctor can believe in creationism and still recognize the dangers of bacteria.


For all the statements that liberals are for tolerance, thank you for showing that you are projecting your own lack of tolerance onto others.

You are exactly right. Species don't suddenly become new species. That is actually against the concept of evolution. The changes accumulate throughout time so, eventually, they are essentially different species.



I never said they couldn't. All I said is that they need to understand and apply evolutionary concepts. They can still have belief in creationism while understanding/applying concepts associated with evolution.



Can you please explain to me what I am doing that is intolerant? I stated to let people believe in creationism. We shouldn't force evolution on them even if we disagree. It's their choice. I thought that was the very definition of tolerance.

Not referring to you specifically, and yeah I should have gone back and looked for the earlier quote by the individual that I was directing the comment towards. My apologies for not being more specific.