My thoughts on the English riots.

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Absolutely. We all need to know exactly where the 'borders' lie. Both national borders and behavioural borders. It's the lack of these two things that have led to what we've seen over the past few nights and as well the destruction of society more generally, I believe. For too many people there is no or only ineffectual punishment for when they offend or misbehave. People aren't definitively taught right from wrong any more.



I don't know but what I suspect is that people need to rally around a very powerful idea. I haven't a clue, I'm just a moaning twat on the Internet. They're ten a penny.



What's even more telling is when the people who were being 'catered' to could see they were being patronised and being played for a fool but as soon as they said anything, they were an embarrassment and persona non grata. Often it was those engaged in the PC mindset who had the most toxic, racist beliefs of them all but were hiding them.

+1 to that. Our city's police are using the internet like tthem scumbags, they set up a special web site today to upload vids and pic for people to id these rioters. One of my local radio station's host perfectly summed up the mood of public volunteering Theres acts of madness are an attack on our city, so it understandable to defend your own city in a civil manner.

News - Rioting spreads to Scotland (Edinburgh/Glasgow) - Link

I've seen funnier gravestones.

If there is anything that makes people go crazy, it is dwindling natural resources. When people see their quality of life going down, their genetic predisposition prepares them for "survival mode". So all reasoning, caring, and common sense is gone. That is why people who live in areas of economic disparity are especially prone to rioting, stealing, and acting out in violence.

Riots in areas of an affluent country are an indication that harsh times are coming for all.



Due to the consumerism economy, if we want to live decent lives we have to be obsessed with money and material possessions. If we don't buy all the crud we possibly want, people loose their jobs.

That is why a progressive economy that was powered by innovation, discovery, and the arts alongside meeting our basic human needs is at least worth trying out. There is still hope for the West, but we need to try something else.

From what I've seen, there appears to be two main perspectives on these riots. The first viewpoint I've seen people take is that they seem to sympathise with the rioters, and although they deny supporting them they seem to suggest that the perpetrators had no choice but to resort to rioting under the circumstances they were in and that their crimes are miniscule compared with the crimes of the rich and powerful. The second viewpoint in conflict with the first seems to make the sweeping generalisation that these are all simply greedy scumbags waiting for the opportunity to fill their pockets with luxury items for free without any consequences to themselves.

So we must examine all the possible suggested causes of the violence erupting in major cities across the UK. Is it anger at the shooting of Mark Duggan? Is it the result of a frustrated impoverished underclass tired of their treatment in society, constant unemployment and the dire economic cirumstances at hand in which the rich and powerful are largely blamed for? Is it the breakdown of the nuclear family, personal responsibility, morals and ethics? Is it greedy opportunists seizing their chance to justify stealing whatever they can get their hands on? Is it the powerless trying to make their voices heard through violence? Is this the result of the consumerist culture we have created in which we value material wealth more than our qaulity of life and that the only way these people can attain it is by stealing it? It is probably all those things.

Yes, many of these people are scumbags, but we must ask the question, what made them scumbags in the first place, is it nature or nurture? I don't believe people are born bad and a lot of these people are the way they are because of poverty, the rich and powerful hoarding all the money and power, the glorification of violence in youth culture (that might is right), the glorification of material wealth in our consumerist culture (that money is more important than people), poor education and the slashing of social security programs which are for many of these people their only chance to be lifted out of poverty. The lack of self-control, personal responsibility and not knowing the difference between right and wrong displayed by the perpetrators is the result of never learning those things when growing up. All they learnt was that this is a dog eat dog world. It is human nature to want things we cannot have, but many of these people do not have the education nor the means to attain the things that the rich and powerful have except through violence. People born into ruling class families go to private schools and then probably go to the best universities and will be guaranteed the highest positions in society. People from working class families do not have this opportunity. Sure, some bright students from poor backgrounds might get into the top universities with hard work, but a lot of people don't succeed no matter how hard they work.

Do not forget though some of the people taking part in the violence are not unemployed youths with no future. Some people with respectable jobs saw this as an opportunity for some free cash. There was even a student who admitted looting to pay for a trip to Africa in his gap year. These people simply want luxury items for free. I also think that the notion that the damage caused by the riots and looting pales in comparison to the damage corporations do on a daily basis is also somewhat problematic.

Man, from the fighting in this thread (I only read page 2...) I'd be surprised if there weren't riots I believe they are simply young people acting out against the oppression of the older generation. Nobody in the government is thinking about us (the kids) no matter which country you live in. And if the world is to survive, changes will have to be made!
I don't support the violence, but I ultimately support the cause behind it. The American Revolution wasn't pretty either, but it was for the best. What ever ya gotta do to make it work

I don't think the violence is absolutely necessary, but without something, we're all screwed!

So you support things like old ladies being attacked, innocent civilians being murdered, shops looted, people's houses and businesses being set alight?

The rioters on the streets have no political aim, no political demands, and do not want to negotiate. They are apolitical, avaricious scum. Send in the Army.

These people weren't out to make a political point. They were out to destroy, maim, loot and take for themselves.

this is a generalisation.

ive seen pictures of a sports car on fire, alone in a row of untouched cars.
Some robbers seem to specifically have targetted an elite restaurant.

i agree that in general it does look apolitical, but even that is a result of politics.

Stealing off 'rich' people. Still scum. Send in the Army.

As I said earlier though a lot of the people there will just be looters and will be up in court soon.

Yes

I guess that would work if your smart phone wasn't stolen off of you, if you aren't in the hospital from getting jumped, or if the thugs didn't clean all the electronics and other valuables out of your house. So is England just going to blindly trust the police to protect them again, having total confidence that next time they really will be there to stop barbarian hordes from sacking and setting fire to the town, or protect you from any other disaster? I hope you guys put Vaseline on the corners of your iPhones so that when you take a thug's picture, it won't hurt so bad when he stuffs it where the sun don't shine. Maybe then you'd become enough of a priority for emergency responders to help you!



It sounds like you need a modified form of paleo-conservatism with some protectionism. You can't save the world. "Progressive economies" and "green economies" are just a euphemism for a depression and deficits. You can't build a stable government that can deal everyone an identical hand in life but you can make their standard of living go up.

To quote a police spokesman 'what can the army do that the police cant do?'

Apparently the police were told to stand down. There are reports that they were just standing by watching as people were assaulted and shops looted (i think this is in the public domain now; it was mentioned on question time)

i dont think its outright paranoia to suggest that this was a deliberate tactic, the goal is to get people saying 'call in the army'

Ive been saying (and posting) for a few years now that the tories posturing about wanting to dismantle the surveillance state was an obvious sham, that they will allow a riot to happen and then use that as an excuse to push for more CCTV, databases, the ID cards will reappear.. everything.

If the tories get a few more terms, a rebranded labour will probably pretend to oppose surveillance .. but not very effectively. repeat ad infinitum (the boot stamping on a human head forever) its all so predictable. dont fall for it.

...And the British wonder why Americans are so fond of owning guns...

Britain's an arms manufacturer. We know why people are fond of owning guns & the benefits & disadvantages of owning them.

What the British wonder is why America is so obsessed with guns.

Literally addicted to gun ownership to the point where it defines America's national identity. In some cases, to the point where Americans can't visualise a country where its people voluntarily, academically and of their own free will refuse to own guns.

an armed society is a polite society -- R.A.Heinlein.

ruveyn